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Flood Combat: Halo 3

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#1 Frost

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 01:23 PM

Was anyone else disappointed with the Flood encounters in Halo 3?

Intro:

The weapon mechanics in Halo: CE kept us scavenging Covenant equipment, which, along with the pistol, got us through Elites, Grunts, Jackals and Hunters. Then, the big twist: the Flood. With the Flood, the AR was finally useful and the shotgun was a God. The differences between the two factions made sure that every weapon saw some use.

Problem:

In Halo 3, the Flood just aren't very Flood-like.

1. The unarmed combat forms seem far too easy to just run by: they shamble after you awkwardly instead of that terrifying, tentacle-waving sprint before the "Holy Shit!" leap into your face.

2. The other problem is, when they do get close, a couple of melees causes them to disintegrate where they stand. In Halo: CE, the Flood's invulnerability to melee attacks (how can you smack something that's already dead and expect results?) gave the perfect "Oh shit, don't let it touch me!" feel to panicky Flood battles.

3. The shotgun has been relegated to a demigod, or maybe some pansy like Apollo. Ranged weapons are far too effective, and unless I'm mistaken, shots to the "head" area with the BR or Carbine do more damage. (Not 100% certain of this.) So the delicate balance of "Am I close enough to shoot?" and "Is that monstrous cadaver close enough to eviscerate me?" has vanished.

In summary:

I know I'm probably the only person who gives a damn, as I'm probably one of the very few who actually enjoyed the Library, but still: the Flood in Halo 3 suck.

That is all.

#2 Nightshade

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 01:38 PM

It's quite obvious that in Halo 3. Bungie wanted the flood to overwelm the player. Insed of literations of past where you only faced a handful of fairly tough Flood at a time. You now face many more Flood, weaker flood. Which I think fits better with the story on the fall of the Forerunners just being crushed by overwelming odds. Also, I think that melees should be as effective as they are, I don't care if something is undead or living, you break it's limbs, it can't use them.

#3 NJ Shlice

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 01:45 PM

It's quite obvious that in Halo 3. Bungie wanted the flood to overwelm the player. Insed of literations of past where you only faced a handful of fairly tough Flood at a time. You now face many more Flood, weaker flood. Which I think fits better with the story on the fall of the Forerunners just being crushed by overwelming odds. Also, I think that melees should be as effective as they are, I don't care if something is undead or living, you break it's limbs, it can't use them.


Agreed that there are plenty more Flood this time but they are a little easier. But I really enjoyed the Flood in Halo 3. I actually just played Cortana with my friend two nights ago, and even on Heroic there is a good balance.

Tons of enemies that are fairly easy + Porcupine shooty things that stick to the wall + Huge drinol-beast-like Flood that take a few point blank shotguns = Mayhem and Fun.

I like Halo 3 Flood much better.

Cortana is an incredibly fun level, when you're not lost in the anus-maze.

#4 Frost

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 01:46 PM

It's quite obvious that in Halo 3. Bungie wanted the flood to overwelm the player. Insed of literations of past where you only faced a handful of fairly tough Flood at a time. You now face many more Flood, weaker flood. Which I think fits better with the story on the fall of the Forerunners just being crushed by overwelming odds.

I would argue that Halo: CE created the sensation of being surrounded and overwhelmed just as well, if not better, than Halo 3, even if they used a smaller number of assailants at a time.

Also, I think that melees should be as effective as they are, I don't care if something is undead or living, you break it's limbs, it can't use them.

Yeah, but if you whack a Flood, the whole thing crumbles apart like a half-baked cookie in one or two blows. Instead of being terrifying in close-quarters, the Flood are basically clay men that fall at the drop of a hat and add no interest in combat.

#5 NJ Shlice

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 01:47 PM

I would argue that Halo: CE created the sensation of being surrounded and overwhelmed just as well, if not better, than Halo 3, even if they used a smaller number of assailants at a time.


Meh. You may have felt "surrounded" in Halo:CE. But in Halo 3 you are fuckin' SURROUNDED! ... on all sides, and three levels high, and Flood as far as you can see.

#6 Frost

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:01 PM

Meh. You may have felt "surrounded" in Halo:CE. But in Halo 3 you are fuckin' SURROUNDED! ... on all sides, and three levels high, and Flood as far as you can see.

And "being" surrounded is somehow better than "feeling" surrounded? Usually in these "big" encounters, you fight small groups of enemies at a time, so the fact that more enemies are present on the screen is pretty much superfluous. To recap: Halo: CE Flood > Halo 3 Flood.

#7 NJ Shlice

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:05 PM

And "being" surrounded is somehow better than "feeling" surrounded? Usually in these "big" encounters, you fight small groups of enemies at a time, so the fact that more enemies are present on the screen is pretty much superfluous. To recap: Halo: CE Flood > Halo 3 Flood.


I have no problem "being" and "feeling" surrounded in Halo 3.

#8 mattacus

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:20 PM

Tons of enemies that are fairly easy + Porcupine shooty things that stick to the wall + Huge drinol-beast-like Flood that take a few point blank shotguns = Mayhem and Fun.


Hey, that reminds me: Where the heck were my Drinol Beasts!?

#9 Nightshade

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:56 PM

Hey, that reminds me: Where the heck were my Drinol Beasts!?

They decided to take it out at the last minute. Just like the epic.

#10 NJ Shlice

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 03:21 PM

Hey, that reminds me: Where the heck were my Drinol Beasts!?


Those other huge Flood forms were close enough. They are a bitch to take down.

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#11 Va1or

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 03:28 PM

They decided to take it out at the last minute. Just like the epic.


Oh SNAP!

Anyways,

Halo 1

- I agree with Frost that there were more "Oh crap they're coming to get me!" panic moments in Halo 1. Good examples of this are when Spark leaves you alone in the Library and you have to survive until he gets back/opens a door. Those flood encounters were some of the most intense in the series if not the most.
- I liked how the shotty blowed holes in them
- It was cool that you could blast limbs off and leave them to helplessly waddle around.
- I like how the Flood with all the spores in them were easier to explode.
- Watching battles between Flood and Covenant was awesome.

Halo 3

- I like the numerous Flood variants this game presents. There is Spore, Carrier, Elite, Brute, Human, quad-ped, bi-ped tank and barb-thrower thingy. That's 8 total. I thought this really helped flesh out the Flood species in a cool way.
- I like how they infect humans etc. right in front of your eyes.
- I like how you can head shot the tentacle "head" area of some Flood with 1 shot. Others (like the armored Elites) are not nearly as easy to take out this way. The bi-ped tank will actually cover his face once you start shooting him there. This is a good way to kill him if you don't have stickies or a sword.
- I actually like how melee works well against them.

I didn't mind the "sniper" flood nearly as much as others did. I actually prefer them to stay in.

I don't like how the shotty got nerfed.

And I miss fighting them in large vehicle battles ala Halo 2.

#12 mattacus

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 04:03 PM

They decided to take it out at the last minute. Just like the epic.


Quantum Field Theory.

#13 Frost

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 05:15 PM

I have no problem "being" and "feeling" surrounded in Halo 3.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: the idea that the Flood were made weaker to compensate for greater numbers of them in battles is silly, because for the most part you fight them in groups comparable in size to Halo: CE, even if there are more of them around.

Edited by Frost, 12 January 2008 - 05:15 PM.


#14 RGxSIL3NTxSCRUB

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 01:49 PM

I know I'm probably the only person who gives a damn, as I'm probably one of the very few who actually enjoyed the Library, but still: the Flood in Halo 3 suck.

Actually, the Library was one of my favorite missions. That level made me quite mad at times, expecially when I had to play it over and over because it wouldn't save. Great mission and I agree, the Flood got massively downgraded.

#15 Cocopjojo

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 01:51 PM

Yeah, I liked the Library. I like Cortana, too. I didn't like either of them at first, but the more I play them, the more I enjoy them.

#16 RGxSIL3NTxSCRUB

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 01:56 PM

Cortana wasn't great with all that dialogue popping up. Especially when your trying to do something fast for a friend like get the terminal or the skulls. There was too much of that throughout the whole game.

#17 Self Induced

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 02:00 PM

Eating Dog Shit > Library > Cortana
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#18 Confalone

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 02:58 PM

Man I couldn't disagree more with this thread, I thought that in halo3 the flood had been handeled the best way ever, let's face it, constantly running backwards with the shotgun going off like crazy can get a little dull after a whole level (The Library)

For me the best part about the flood in H3 was the way that the infection forms 'floodify' previously normal corpses, and the way that you can always hear the gravemind talking in the fights the way you would hear marine or covenant chatter in any other fight was also pretty killer

The mutant flood were really great too, scary and also pretty tough to fight unless you really know how to take them down. Also the enviroments, I mean, wow are they ever gross! But that's the cool part! The Flood is a pretty gross thing when you think about it isnt it I thought they were represented in an incredible way that I'd have never thought possible.

oh and

Eating Dog Shit > Library > Cortana

LMFAO

Edited by Confalone, 28 May 2008 - 02:59 PM.


#19 Self Induced

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 03:59 PM

I would argue that Halo: CE created the sensation of being surrounded and overwhelmed just as well, if not better, than Halo 3, even if they used a smaller number of assailants at a time.

You know, I actually think Halo 1 both created the sensation of being overwhelmed by the Flood, and actually had you more overwhelmed by the Flood than Halo 3.

A very large part of this was the way the Infection forms were designed. In Halo, they had much smoother movements, were more visible, had auto-aim, attacked you, could be melee'd and were treated a lot more like actual enemies. There were way more of them and literally swarmed you. Also, Flood forms could not be revived, so all of them were focused on you.

In Halo 2 and 3, you just don't notice them as much. They have no auto-aim, are much darker colored and less visible, move too quickly to do anything about them, rarely attack you (seriously, if I get attacked by infection forms at all, I just don't notice - most of the time they seem much more interested in reviving a dead Flood form), can't be melee'd easily, and NEVER swarm you.

There were also way, way more carrier forms in Halo 1, which contributed to the way, way more infection forms. You can't explode a carrier form with ease in Halo 3 and they are terribly slow. I had fun with carrier forms in Halo 1, and now they are practically non-existent and they really really suck.

Because Halo 2 and 3 do not have swarms of Infection forms, it felt more like I'm being attacked by Covenant than by Flood. Infection forms contributed a very large part of the "flood" feeling they are supposed to give, and because there simply aren't that many in 2/3, that part of the "flood" feeling is missing.

A very good example of this would be the part after the first sentinels on the Maw. After clearing them out and the Flood they were fighting, you'd encounter a door that would bust open and Flood would literally pour out at you. I highly recommend that you play this part again. When you do, think about how it would be if there were no infection forms.

In Halo 2 and 3, there are just a lot of Flood combat forms. Big fucking deal. In Halo 1, the infection forms brought the essential part of the Flood persona that truly made them feel like a flood.
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#20 Stormtrooper30

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 05:13 PM

I agree, Induced. In Halo CE, there were much more infection forms than in the other games. In Halo CE the carriors were a priority for me because they could explode and unleash a swarm of flood to eat your weakened body. In Halo 3, they dont die easily and they are slow. I dont feel like wasting bullets on them so I always throw grenades on them. No big deal. They pose no threat at all.



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