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Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith


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#81 Vanwadilion

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 06:26 PM

sweet. I haven't got a copy yet, because I don't have a DVD burner. My friend dled it and I'm going to get a copy from him this weekend, but I know the website he downloaded it from. Supposedly it's DVD quality; the only problem is that the site is Sweedish. By the way, Voc, when can we be expecting your review?

#82 vociferous

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 07:04 PM

sweet.  I haven't got a copy yet, because I don't have  a DVD burner.  My friend dled it and I'm going to get a copy from him this weekend, but I know the website he downloaded it from.  Supposedly it's DVD quality; the only problem is that the site is Sweedish.  By the way, Voc, when can we be expecting your review?

I didn't post a review because I've been swamped lately, hence my doling out moderators for the forums among a few members. I'm actually going to be stepping away from the board for a while starting tomorrow. In fact, you guys may not see or hear from me for a month or so, but that's another story.

At any rate, this is what I wrote a friend (the same who sent me the DVD and that I mentioned in my previous post) in an email after watching the movie a second time. It's not massive, it's poorly written and was done at about three in the morning in a a period of less than five minutes:

First off, I loved the score. It was magnificent and powerful. I was surprised and a little taken aback by the continuous music in the background of almost every scene. In most films, and even most Star Wars films, there are moments of just strictly dialogue. This film had a few, but for the most part it seemed content to have some musical configuration playing at any given point. This isn't a bad thing when the music is as good as William's was here, it would be if the music sucked. Between "Padm?'s Ruminitions" and "Anakin's Dark Deeds," there is some seriously great score works here. I was glad to see that in this final film, they covered the major themes of each of the prequels and introduced a lot of the old musical themes from the original films. They had "Duel of the Fates" during the battle between Sidious and Yoda, they had "Across the Stars" lightly played when Anakin reuinites with Padm? after the space battle and the entire film was laced with the "Binary Sun" theme song and other works from the original films. It was good stuff and it was privotal to each scene. Star Wars fans should be able to get the elusive tracks like "Leia's Theme" during Bail Organa's return to Alderaan and others sprinkled about. So, by in large, the score was the film's greatest achievement.

Secondly, I thought the story, pacing, dialogue and acting were quite decent. In fact, in terms of Star Wars films, I don't think another did it this well since "Return of the Jedi." While all six films have great stories in my opinion, the pacing and acting isn't as spot-on with the four others as I feel these two final?'s had. Perhaps it's because they are the final representation of their respective trilogies, or possibly because they dealt with the actual story more than any of the other films (Lucas is trying to tie up loose ends in both), but either way, these two films come out grand and spectacular in light of the story. The acting wasn't that bad either. Ian McDiarmid and Ewan McGregor their best performances I have ever seen, bar none. Hayden Christensen did as well, but I have seen very little of his work. The cast's general acting itself wasn't over-reaching, although there were times that the emotion seemed a little displaced and it wasn't as stoic as "The Phantom Menace," but there were instances when you wonder if the characters are just saying their lines or acting them. Initially I was hung up on the fact that this film seemed to not fit well with the prequels. I won't say that I absolutely loved wooden acting and corny delivery, but most of the other Star Wars films have either one or the other or both. This one had a little, but it seemed like it was actually far more authentic of a film than any of the other Star Wars movies. In other words, initially, it didn't feel like Star Wars. It felt like a decently engineered film. Don't get me wrong, there were moments during the second viewing where I was like: "Woohoo! That's a prequel line!" but I was shocked at how few times I could honestly say that.

Another major thing that caught me off guard was the emotion. I don't know if it was because it was the last film, or because the movie starts off on such a happy, free-spirited cleft, but this film shakes you to some degree. It could simply be because I've followed the characters closely and Lucas succeeded in making this very plausible. Some people said Anakin's transformation seems forced or quick. Evidentally they've never been in love. If I had been in his position and Rachael in Padm?'s, you better believe I would have done whatever the hell it took to keep her around. There was enough information in the film to suggest in the actual "chaning point" for Anakin was a decision based on distrust of the Jedi Order and wanting to save Padm? the only way he knew how. It made sense to me and the story really draws up this well of emotion where you're honestly hoping Anakin can wake up and smell the coffee. You really don't want him to become Darth Vader, at least I didn't, the first time I saw the film. That's good story telling.

What I didn't like from the film was few and far between: I didn't care for the fact that the actual violent elements of the film were editted to the degree they were. I would have liked to have seen Anakin actually kill the Jedi on something other than a hologram, and I know that some of these scenes were cut from the film because of time constraints. I hope the DVD shows more of this. As well, the cut footage in general made me angry. That Qui-Gon Jinn or the benefits of the Living Force were cut out, it leaves the audience only fragments of information to discern how Yoda/Obi-Wan disappear, why Vader apparently can and why Obi-Wan and Yoda don't train Luke from infancy. These things are significant to the events of the original films, but it seems like he would rather have half-answers asuage viewers than actually add a few more minutes on his film. I don't think there would be too many objections to cap off the film at three hours, especially if it enhanced the story more in the end. It's fine, but it was just a little frustrating. I was upset that the droids weren't more involved in the story than they were, since they are to some degree the core unit of the Star Wars films. And although it was longer than I expected, I would have rather had a deeper understanding of the conflict on Kashyyyk instead of an excuse for Lucas to show Wookies. In the novel there is a whole backstory of the High Council trying to draw out a Sith Lord they believe is close to the Chancellor, and in order to do this, Yoda leaves for Kashyyyk. Now the novel actually has very little in terms of the battle, but this would have been interesting to see leading up to Yoda's departure, because there is a tad bit of an argument between Windu, Yoda and Obi-Wan about what they're asking Anakin to do.

Overall, it was a great film. I don't compare the films against each other anymore because I see them as one complete entity, but this movie is definitely one of the most exiciting points in the story. I'm glad they're finished and I can't wait until I have the DVD box set of all six. I'm hoping that Lucas reviews all of the films one last time, goes back to the drawing board and makes sure they're full of continuity and closure. Once this is done, I'll be fine. Anyways, let me know what you think of the film or if you have anything to add or detract from what I said.


Another interesting comment, just for people who follow musical themes: The "Duel of the Fates" track was played in The Phantom Menace during Qui-Gon's final battle with Maul, it was also played in a short stint where Anakin is riding his speeder in Tatooine before he finds and avenges his mother's death on Attack of the Clones and then during the duel between Yoda and Sidious in the Senate chamber, right before the culmination of Yoda's failure brings him to defeat during the most recent film. I found it quite interesting, the parts of Revenge of the Sith that were cut out about Yoda and Qui-Gon clearly explain that after his death, the two Jedi were able to communicate through the Force. This was something unprecendented, but it is later discussed in the novel at some extent and even during the script (although this part was cut out) where Qui-Gon explains to Yoda that the Living Force is the key to immortality. The Living Force, as Qui-Gon taught it in the first film of the series, was a Jedi outlook that embraced the moment and the scenario rather than protcol and procedure. The latter view of the Force was called the Unifying Force, which was the one that Yoda, Windu and other members of the Council had. This was the consistent view of the Jedi Order, very dogmatic and legalistic, always concerned about the future outcome but not of the "here and now."

Now I can't speak to why Lucas left out these elements of closure in Revenge of the Sith, but I do believe the DVD will include more of them because they are pertinent to the story. I believe the actual "duel of the fates" has to do with the choice of the Jedi Council and their contribution to the fall of Anakin, which eventually results in their near extinction (ie. the Living Force vs. the Unifying Force). In the first film, we hear the track during the fateful duel where Qui-Gon dies and gives Anakin into the hands of Obi-Wan. The Council relunctantly accepts the boy as a Jedi, but do not allow him to return to his mother or nuture any attachments whatsoever. This culminates in another fateful event, where the track is heard, one which involves Anakin enacting revenge on the Tusken's who took his mother's life. Notice also that Qui-Gon cries out in the Force during this event, begging Anakin to relent. Bring it now full circle to Yoda's battle with Sidious, and although it is more of a stalemate, his goal was to "destroy" the Sith, and he was unable to accomplish that an admits defeat. The book and the script seem to indicate his failure had more to do with the Jedi's narrow-minded view of the Force which caused this to begin with (had Anakin been able to be more free and their system less rigid, perhaps the events would have played out in their favor). Qui-Gon, at the end of the film, teaches Yoda about the Living Force, and how that is a key to not only eternal life, but to passing into the Force without corruption. It's also the same reason why Luke and Leia are not kept and trained as Jedi from day one, because they wanted the Living Force to bring them to the Jedi instead of allowing the Unifying Force to predicate all of their actions.

#83 Blaze

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 07:48 AM

Ha.

#84 BRASH

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 11:01 AM

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#85 TheDrinkNinja

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 03:02 PM

Ha.

Maddox > Everyone in the world.
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#86 vociferous

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 06:42 PM

Ha.

Maddox > Everyone in the world.

Disagreed.

I don't think I've ever agreed with Maddox on any topics, political or filmic. But that's alright, I hardly ever agree with anyone who persistently uses size 14 font, petulantly argues based on his/her own lack of knowledge on the actual facts of the case or has to use profanity and pictures to keep his/her audience from falling asleep or unconsciously masturbating (which size 14 font is known to induce).

The drawings did make me laugh.

#87 TheDrinkNinja

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 09:12 PM

Ha.

Maddox > Everyone in the world.

Disagreed.

I don't think I've ever agreed with Maddox on any topics, political or filmic. But that's alright, I hardly ever agree with anyone who persistently uses size 14 font, petulantly argues based on his/her own lack of knowledge on the actual facts of the case or has to use profanity and pictures to keep his/her audience from falling asleep or unconsciously masturbating (which size 14 font is known to induce).

The drawings did make me laugh.

You know, I think he'd probably tell you to do horrible things to yourself in response to that.

I showed that to a friend of mine. He refused to read it because "He had no credibility". Why? Because he said Jedis instead of Jedi as plural. Asshattery at its finest.

In the meantime, no one says you need to agree with him. I disagree with him on a lot too, but meh. It's good for a laugh, and he's got the power to do whatever he wants with his opinion.
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#88 h00ters11

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 07:28 PM

Fucking hilarious.
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#89 Jironimo

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 09:14 AM

I found a very good article at Stuffo which gives a good overview about the Sith including their history. I found it most interesting that the Sith were originally Jedi that seperated from the Jedi Order because it had just been decided that the dark side was not what Jedi's would use. These Jedi were exiled to far parts of the galaxy where they ended up on Korriban amongst indigenous people who practiced the dark side as magic without any discipline. These Jedi learned the secrets of the dark side and founded the Sith order. This occured 25,000 years before Episode I. I also liked how it explains that there are only two Sith, a Master and Apprentice, because there was a lot of infighting over power among the Sith when there were many Sith. This tradition was established by Darth Bane 1,000 years before Episode I, I believe this is the same villain from KOTR. Did you guys also know that after Episode VI Darth Sidious actually exists in the spirit realm similar to the Jedi and actually manages to lure Jedi Master Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side? Luke actually ends up back on the Jedi Order after Jedi Princess Leia Solo manages to bring him back.

I just had a few questions for vociferous. In Episode III, Darth Sidious talks about a Dark Sith Lord to Anakin who learned how to keep people from dying. I was a little disappointed the article didn't talk about him because I found it very interesting. I believe his name was Darth Plagus, but I'm not sure if that's him or if I'm spelling it correctly. Is that him and how do you spell his name? There's a lot of Sith in the spirit realm throughout their history, how do the Sith know how to do this and not the Jedi until Episode IV?

#90 vociferous

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 02:00 PM

This tradition was established by Darth Bane 1,000 years before Episode I, I believe this is the same villain from KOTR.  Did you guys also know that after Episode VI Darth Sidious actually exists in the spirit realm similar to the Jedi and actually manages to lure Jedi Master Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side?  Luke actually ends up back on the Jedi Order after Jedi Princess Leia Solo manages to bring him back.

This is actually kind of an interesting subject, but I need to clear up something that is off dispute. There are two fields of thought when it comes to Star Wars fans. The first is canon and the second is non-canon, or "EU." Basically, canon is whatever is in the films and can be confirmed by the films. "EU" or expanded universe are things which another individual thought up that may or may not necessarily agree with canon, and most Star Wars fans don't try to reconcile it, holding canon as the real Star Wars. So, now that we've got the nerd jargon out of the way, let me answer your questions. I should mention that I have yet to read that article, but I'm pretty familiar with the history off-hand.

You stated that you thought the same villain was in "Knights of the Old Republic" who started the Sith 2-Rule (only a Master and Apprentice). The Sith Lord villain from the video game is called Darth Malak and he lived about 10,000 years prior to the Battle of Yavin which is the space battle with the destruction of the first Death Star. Darth Bane lived about 1,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, which means they're two very different individuals. During "Knights of the Old Republic" you'll notice that there are numerous Sith. This is before the "infighting" that you spoke of occurred. I should also mention that Sidious' existence beyond Episode VI is very much non-canon, just as is the video games, novels and comic books. The problem with Sidious coming back and the story following Luke Skywalker's fall to the dark side is that it conflicts in many ways with the information discovered in the prequels, essentially contradicting canon.

Darth Sidious talks about a Dark Sith Lord to Anakin who learned how to keep people from dying. I was a little disappointed the article didn't talk about him because I found it very interesting. I believe his name was Darth Plagus, but I'm not sure if that's him or if I'm spelling it correctly.

Yeah, his name is Darth Plagueis. The reason the article didn't touch on him is that he has yet to be seriously bastardized by the Lucasfilm marketing engine, which would sell a bunch of books about a story related to the character, that which George Lucas had no direct control over. Most Star Wars fans, like myself, don't really care for it when they go down this past, but Plagueis is interesting, because no one really knows much about him. It should be understood that Plagueis may have never really known about the secret of living after death, but Sidious simply used it to steer Skywalker to the dark side. You'll notice, Sidious changes his story from: "my master taught me everything about the dark side and about this secret" to "together we will learn the secret and save Padm? from certain death." I don't think Sidious ever knew the secret, and I don't think Plagueis did either. You may also read about Plagueis being Anakin Skywalker's father, because he "discovered a way to create life," but it should be noted that Lucas specifically steered clear of some wording in earlier drafts so that people would not draw that conclusion. Anakin was born through conception that did not involve traditional fucking.


Is that him and how do you spell his name? There's a lot of Sith in the spirit realm throughout their history, how do the Sith know how to do this and not the Jedi until Episode IV?


Episode III tells us that the Sith really never knew the secret to eternal life. The script, what was cut out of the Yoda/Qui-Gon conversation at the end of the film, indicates the truth about retaining your identity after death. Qui-Gon states that he was able to do this (as you can see from Episode II and III), through compassion and love, elements that are completely separate from the path of the Sith. He states that the Sith will never know this, but that he was taught it by a Shaman of the Whills. This was later removed, but I hope they put it back because it explains pretty much all of Episode VI's intent. The non-canon, expanded universe crowd basically got snubbed by Lucas when he wrote this, because the common belief before Episode III was that it was a secret that was fairly well-known, or at least had been at one time. Many, many, many expanded universe books were written about spirit Jedi and Sith, but we come to find out that the Sith never really understood it and the Jedi had lost the knowledge at one point, which is why Yoda and Obi-Wan were shocked at Qui-Gon Jinn's ability to remain intact and alive, even after Maul ran him through.


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