Jump to content


Photo

M6G. Why no M6D?

Halo 3

  • Please log in to reply
103 replies to this topic

#1 phreak

phreak

    What happened???

  • Member
  • 735 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 03:25 PM

I've said this before and I said this to some of the guys last night. Bungie needs to put the M6D in as an extra weapon. It doesn't need to be in singleplayer or on any of the multiplayer maps. It just needs to be available so you can swap it in during custom games. Yeah, yeah M6G. All the M6G is gonna end up doing is pissing people off, it isn't going to make any of the people who really want the Halo 1 pistol happy. Either it will be too powerful, or they are going to have to change it enough to where it isn't comparable to the H1 pistol (too weak, no scope, too slow, whatever). Really, I just don't understand how it could possibly hurt Bungie to just make their fans happy and put the H1 pistol in as an extra. Is there something I'm missing here? It just seems to me to be really stingy to be so stubborn as to not even do something as simple as that.

#2 UHYVE

UHYVE
  • Veteran
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 03:55 PM

Yeah, it would be cool if they could just put it in as an option for custom gametypes. I don't see how it would screw up the balance if they did that. To be fair though, we don't know how powerful the M6G will be, so we shouldn't really be making assumptions right now... you know what they say about assumptions, they make an ass out of you and.... mumptions.

#3 vociferous

vociferous
  • Veteran
  • 3,639 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:00 PM

jesusphreak, why does video game controversy hover aimlessly around you all the time? To complete your thread topic...Bungie is disrespecting me if they do put the M6D in. They're in a lose-lose situation it appears. Because I'm sold on the M6G from what I've heard. Sounds like a weapon I might pick up from time to time rather than every single time. I think it's kind of early to pass judgment on a weapon and a video game we have yet to play. Don't ya think?

#4 NJ Shlice

NJ Shlice

    Tonight, we dine in Halo!

  • Veteran
  • 2,051 posts
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:11 PM

Life will be grand if you will have the option of adjusting the strength of certain weapons in custom games. then you can make the pistol a 1-shot if you'd like *Cough* Golden Gun FTW *Cough*

#5 UHYVE

UHYVE
  • Veteran
  • 1,692 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:13 PM

I think it's kind of early to pass judgment on a weapon and a video game we have yet to play. Don't ya think?

Tis true. But as with the fuel rod cannon, you've got to wonder why they can't just put weapons like these as custom game options and not include them in matchmaking (I can't remember who said this, but I noticed it in the AJ forums somewhere and I agree). Added customization can only add to the game... if nobody wants the weapon in their custom games, they'll just not put it in their game.

The only reason that this is a big deal to fans is because Bungie makes it a big deal, they try to make everything totally balanced but they didn't seem to do such a great job in H2. It seems to have worried people and I think people would just feel better if they could balance the game themselves with some really good custom game options. That way, everyone is happy. Imagine the craziness in the MLG if they could make their own totally customized gametypes.

Edited by UHYVE, 01 May 2007 - 04:17 PM.


#6 phreak

phreak

    What happened???

  • Member
  • 735 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 05:14 PM

jesusphreak, why does video game controversy hover aimlessly around you all the time?


Mind giving an example? Your reply kind of surprised me.

To complete your thread topic...Bungie is disrespecting me if they do put the M6D in. They're in a lose-lose situation it appears. Because I'm sold on the M6G from what I've heard. Sounds like a weapon I might pick up from time to time rather than every single time.


And no, Bungie is NOT disrespecting you if they put in the M6D as an extra. It doesn't have to be in any map and you don't have to play with it. It is better that it be there than not be there at all.

Please tell me how it could hurt the game if the M6D was a completely optional weapon? It can only make their hardcore Halo 1 fans happy and nobody else has to mess with it if they don't want.

Edited by jesusphreak, 01 May 2007 - 05:20 PM.


#7 GhaleonEB

GhaleonEB
  • Member
  • 314 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 05:25 PM

I've said this before and I said this to some of the guys last night.

Bungie needs to put the M6D in as an extra weapon. It doesn't need to be in singleplayer or on any of the multiplayer maps. It just needs to be available so you can swap it in during custom games.


Another option is to include the weapon traits, as Voc has speculated may be in. Then players could adjust the pistol to match the Halo 1 weapon.

But honestly, I think the only way Bungie could be seen as disrespecting their fans is not putting out a quality title. If the new weapon set works, is fun and is well balanced, then they've met their commitment to us. Not including weapon traits or the pistol is not disrespect if the gun is not needed. Tossing in the MD6 would be a fun bonus for nostalgiac fans, but I hope they don't to so at the expense of any other feature that should be in the game. The truly nostalgiac should just play Halo 1 for the weapon.

(I actually prefer the Battle Rifle to the MD6, personally.)

Edited by GhaleonEB, 01 May 2007 - 05:25 PM.


#8 phreak

phreak

    What happened???

  • Member
  • 735 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 05:34 PM

Another option is to include the weapon traits, as Voc has speculated may be in. Then players could adjust the pistol to match the Halo 1 weapon.


I agree, if they allow adjustable weapon traits, that will largely fix this issue. But say that the M6G doesn't have a scope? Will it be that adjustable?

But honestly, I think the only way Bungie could be seen as disrespecting their fans is not putting out a quality title. If the new weapon set works, is fun and is well balanced, then they've met their commitment to us. Not including weapon traits or the pistol is not disrespect if the gun is not needed. Tossing in the MD6 would be a fun bonus for nostalgiac fans, but I hope they don't to so at the expense of any other feature that should be in the game. The truly nostalgiac should just play Halo 1 for the weapon.


The thing is, Bungie has some incredibly committed fans. Some people have been following them for years (even before Halo 1). Some hate Halo 2 and dislike what it is, while others love it. The least Bungie could do is throw some of their old time fans a bone and just put in that as an option. Telling them to go play Halo 1 is insulting; there's a lot more than just a pistol we are talking about here (LIVE and every other feature Halo 3 will bring to the table).

If Bungie doesn't put this option in, to me if just feels like a snobbish "we know how Halo should be played, and if you don't like it, tough". It also to me feels just as snobby for other Halo fans to deny other fans something which doesn't affect the core gameplay at all.

It hurts *nothing*, and it rewards the many fans who absolutely love Halo 1 and the feel the pistol gave it.

Edited by jesusphreak, 01 May 2007 - 05:38 PM.


#9 quickshade

quickshade
  • Banned
  • 408 posts
  • Location:somewhere sweet

Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:09 PM

Saying Bungie isn't helping fans because they didn't put the pistol back in is a dumb statement. i don't mean to be well mean but Bungie has to balance this game because they don't have the excuse that they screwed up. This being the final chapter of the game and Bungie is going to most likely take a break after this (on Halo) they want to leave on a strong note. But bungie really has gone back to their root.s the AR is back, The scale is back, The story seems to be in order and from what Frankie discribes the missions are fun. Thats what I want. And i hope Bungie delivers. But to judge them because they changed the pistol....yea not going to happen.

#10 phreak

phreak

    What happened???

  • Member
  • 735 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:20 PM

Saying Bungie isn't helping fans because they didn't put the pistol back in is a dumb statement. i don't mean to be well mean but Bungie has to balance this game because they don't have the excuse that they screwed up. This being the final chapter of the game and Bungie is going to most likely take a break after this (on Halo) they want to leave on a strong note. But bungie really has gone back to their root.s the AR is back, The scale is back, The story seems to be in order and from what Frankie discribes the missions are fun. Thats what I want. And i hope Bungie delivers. But to judge them because they changed the pistol....yea not going to happen.


I agree balance is key. That is extremely important. Now what what will it hurt if the M6D is in as a completely optional weapon? So what if it isn't balanced, it is extra. Nobody has to play with it.

I'm not talking about putting it in as one of the main weapons of the game; just put it in.

#11 Nightshade

Nightshade

    ↓ I'm with stupid. ↓

  • Veteran
  • 3,328 posts
  • Location:Nebraska

Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:28 PM

I agree balance is key. That is extremely important. Now what what will it hurt if the M6D is in as a completely optional weapon? So what if it isn't balanced, it is extra. Nobody has to play with it.

I'm not talking about putting it in as one of the main weapons of the game; just put it in.

Well I personally wasen't a big fan of the M6D, so to say putting it in Halo 3 as a cutsom game option is not great for me, because I don't want to have to enter 50 Halo 3 matches to find the ONE that dosen't have it as the main starting weapon. I am one of the few that HATED the pistol, it ruined the game for me when all people did was use it. It limited the games great selection down to three weapons, Pistol, sniper rifle, rocket launcher. The game had other guns, but of course nooone used them because they had the pistol, and if you tired to you got destroied because you didin't use the pistol, or the sniper rifle, or the rocket launcher.

It's all personal oppinion, maybe it was my bad experiences with it that made me hate it, but I can't stand the pistol.

#12 Syracuse022

Syracuse022

    Build My Gallows High, Baby

  • Veteran
  • 4,164 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:32 PM

But bungie really has gone back to their root.s the AR is back, The scale is back, The story seems to be in order and from what Frankie discribes the missions are fun.

You have read the things that Frankie said about Halo 2, right?

To complete your thread topic...Bungie is disrespecting me if they do put the M6D in. They're in a lose-lose situation it appears. Because I'm sold on the M6G from what I've heard. Sounds like a weapon I might pick up from time to time rather than every single time.

What was wrong with what he proposed? The way he has it set up, you'd never have to play with the M6D if you didn't want to. Also, you are on the record as being in favor of the M6D as long as it wasn't a starting weapon. There is absolutely no reason why Bungie can't squeeze a few man hours towards using the model they jacked in a way that actually makes sense.

There are the obvious things about the M6G that bug me, but I'm probably most irked by this: why is the scope still attached if Chief can't use it? That's straight up misleading. This goes way beyond announcing it for a few hours on halo3.com. It didn't take long for myself and others to see that the Starry Night commercial pistol had a scope. It is a straight up asshole move to use that model and have it act nothing like it should, according to precedent. Say what you want about 'balance' - the M6G is a metaphor for the entirety of Halo 2's development, maybe not to you, but certainly to people like myself who see Halo 2 as a complete reworking and removal of everything that made Halo 1 great. Halo 2 took the models, took the universe, took the entire framework and made it something completely foreign as far as gameplay was concerned. Not a good sign to me, then, that the same thing has happened on a smaller scale once more. Smaller scale, but with probably the most important symbol of that shift away from greatness... Not a good sign at all.

Congratulations Voc, Cuse rants temporarily reactivated. But it was necessary.

I think it's kind of early to pass judgment on a weapon and a video game we have yet to play. Don't ya think?

So, tell me, how are you "sold on it" already? Sounds like the same thing, but in reverse. Sigh... :dry:


P.S. Nightshade, I use other weapons all the time. Now go look at my Halo 2 stats. 75 percent of my kills come with the battle rifle. Did anything really improve?

Edited by Syracuse022, 01 May 2007 - 06:34 PM.


#13 Nightshade

Nightshade

    ↓ I'm with stupid. ↓

  • Veteran
  • 3,328 posts
  • Location:Nebraska

Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:38 PM

P.S. Nightshade, I use other weapons all the time. Now go look at my Halo 2 stats. 75 percent of my kills come with the battle rifle. Did anything really improve?

That may be. But I have never played Halo: Combat Evolved with you 'Cuse. I am saying from my personal experiecnes from Xbox Connect (Yes I know don't say it...) and LAN parties that in MY experiece it was not fun at all.

But I do know what you feel 'Cuse. I went through the whole "but certainly to people like myself who see Halo 2 as a complete reworking and removal of everything that made Halo 1 great..." with the Splinter Cell series from Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory to Splinter Cell: Double Agent.

#14 Kinetic

Kinetic

    is Algebraic.

  • Veteran
  • 3,709 posts
  • PSN:DocKinetic
  • Steam:dockinetic

Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:48 PM

There are the obvious things about the M6G that bug me, but I'm probably most irked by this: why is the scope still attached if Chief can't use it? That's straight up misleading. This goes way beyond announcing it for a few hours on halo3.com. It didn't take long for myself and others to see that the Starry Night commercial pistol had a scope. It is a straight up asshole move to use that model and have it act nothing like it should, according to precedent.

That is odd, but there has to be a reason Bungie kept the scope attached. The only logical thing I can come up with is that we'll be able to zoom in with the M6G in Campaign mode, which is definitely something feasible if you look at the weapon changes from single player to multiplayer Bungie did with Halo 2.

Edited by Kinetic, 01 May 2007 - 06:49 PM.


#15 vociferous

vociferous
  • Veteran
  • 3,639 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:02 PM

jp, maybe "controversy" was the wrong word, so for that I apologize. It seems the last few times you've talked about the Halo series, anything that doesn't have H1 attributes was broken. I think it's unfair and disrespectful to the people who enjoyed the M6D-less H2, a group which I belong in.

I need everyone here to be prepared for "disrespect" toward fans. The M6G will not be the M6D. The best chance for you to use the M6D might be through campaign (like Kinetic said) or through weapon traits (Ghaleon's reiterated).

Now since everyone is now priming their Posted Image, I'll save you the trouble. I fully understand that you're asking for it to be included in custom games only. I think what a lot of you guys can't quite seem to understand is that Bungie isn't witholding this weapon from you because they don't think people want it. I think it has a lot to do with performance in online populations. We've developed this idea that the way H1 played is the way it would operate in an online circuit. We take an offline game with an offline population and then translate that to an online game and an online population and you're going to have network related issues and you're going to have serious balance problems with a weapon that powerful being used by players far better than your local LAN boss. Is it worth the effort?

Maybe. Maybe not. I personally don't care anymore.

Oh and 'Cuse, if my prior post wasn't evidently sarcastic, my apologies. The whole "sold on it" statement was satrical in nature. My point unproven, I'll just say that I hope you guys get what you're looking for. I personally won't feel disrespected if the M6D stays in my H1 disc where I like it.

#16 Drew

Drew

    Waifus R Us

  • Member
  • 3,965 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:50 PM

Boy, I'm glad I stayed out of this topic. I'm sure that if they could do it, Bungie would. The Sentinel Beam is an excellent example. It seems like it'd be possible, but then again, I didn't make Halo 3, so I wouldn't know. As for if I would like to see it in the game, I personally don't care, and I was the guy who got all of my friends to quit playing or switch the weapons on the map because I was so good with the pistol and sniper. -Shrugs-. I'm more excited about the potential of equipment than I am about the "return" of the M6D, but I certainly wouldn't complain if it made it into MP in some sort of customizable option.

#17 Jironimo

Jironimo

    Hunter Master Race

  • Admin
  • 3,928 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:26 PM

That is extremely important. Now what what will it hurt if the M6D is in as a completely optional weapon? So what if it isn't balanced, it is extra. Nobody has to play with it.

I'm not talking about putting it in as one of the main weapons of the game; just put it in.

It will hurt because making Halo 3 still involves basic economics. Limited resources among unlimited wants or needs. Why should they spend one second on a purely optional weapon when they could spend that time doing something else which will make Halo 3 better. Not to mention that the exact M6D causes all sorts of problems to the game engine, such as incorporating dual-wielding to an incredibly powerful weapon. I personally think the M6D was too powerful and made no sense considering it was a pistol not a rifle. I think the BR has filled the position of that weapon just fine and there's no need for redundancy. The M6G also seems to have taken some nice things we remember about the M6D without all the crap the M6C was.

btw guys, please make your thread titles as short as possible and very clear. Meaning, someone shouldn't have to click this thread to see that it's an M6D discussion. I saw "Bungie is disrespecting their fans if" and that doesn't explain anything about what this topic is discussing. Another thing, when possible use just the thread title and not the topic description line.

#18 Syracuse022

Syracuse022

    Build My Gallows High, Baby

  • Veteran
  • 4,164 posts

Posted 02 May 2007 - 12:10 AM

I personally won't feel disrespected if the M6D stays in my H1 disc where I like it.

I like it there, too. Hey, next time you get online, send me an invite, okay? We'll play some Matchmaking if nobody else is on, but if we can get a big enough party, remind me to show you guys the new CTF Gametype I came up with the other day. 1 flag on Dammy - it's fucking epic.

I think the BR has filled the position of that weapon just fine and there's no need for redundancy.

List of all redundant things between the BR55 and the M6D:
-they fire bullets
-they have 2x zoom capabilities
You're totally right. I'd love for Bungie to use their man hours for much less redundant things, like Brute Plasma Rifles.

#19 r3dn3ck snip3r

r3dn3ck snip3r
  • Member
  • 134 posts
  • Location:Colorado

Posted 02 May 2007 - 05:31 AM

If they were smart, they would put the M6D in custom games. Half the people love it, half hate it, and a few, like me, could care less. I'll own you with M6D, Magnum, M6G, whatever... But to please the fans, they should let you use it in custom games

#20 GhaleonEB

GhaleonEB
  • Member
  • 314 posts

Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:43 AM

List of all redundant things between the BR55 and the M6D:
-they fire bullets
-they have 2x zoom capabilities
You're totally right. I'd love for Bungie to use their man hours for much less redundant things, like Brute Plasma Rifles.

Of the lessons they learned in Halo 2 and could apply to Halo 3, it would be to improve the weapon mix to eliminate redunant weapons like you listed. Adding in the old pistol would be to repeat the mistake you seem to be arguing against. Bungie took it out because they felt it was overpowered, and does not fit into the Halo weapon mix well.

I realize there are many who deeply love the MD6 (I'm not one of them, but that's not the point), but the reality is, Bungie does not. If they did, it would be in Halo 2 and Halo 3. I don't know how to be delicate about this given the passions involved, but I think people should just move on. I feel like I'm reading the argument that Shadowrun should have been an RPG, extended over several years. That's the way it is. Maybe they'll throw the MD6 fans a bone, maybe they won't, but hopefully they nail the core weapon mix. That's what is most important.

Edited by GhaleonEB, 02 May 2007 - 08:43 AM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Halo 3

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq