184 replies to this topic

[Jironimo]

Dude I never said that HCE maps didn't require strategy or weren't good. I know there's plenty of crazy ways to score the flag in like .001 seconds in various maps and you can do similar things in H2. I'm damn aware that damnation is a great map, and so are some other maps in HCE but in general H2 MAPS are much better. You're the one that's not listening to what I'm saying. Maybe the gameplay is better in HCE, maybe the pro teams had great plays (why I should care, I don't know I'm not a pro and neither is anyone here), but the maps in H2 will always be better. We don't need to be TDT or StK to be good at running plays in H2. It goes without saying that we're not as good as them, but it still amazes me how we kick the shit out of many teams online with much superior slayers simply because incredible objective strategy. The entire clan knows what I'm gonna do everytime and I still get the flag moving in less than 10 sec 80% of the time and it becomes damn near 99% when we play online and the other team is oblivious to what I'm doing. There's no reason we should have any shame for knowing how to run a cool play in H2 just because we're not a pro like you and H2 isn't as good as HCE according to you.

[Syracuse022]

Ogre 2, Saiyan, TSquared, Strangepurple, McGavin, Karma... these are names that have dominated the Halo tournament scene, in both games... watched a montage tonight that had some pretty cool quotes from all of them: What is your idea of the perfect competitive game? Ogre 2: Halo C.E. Ogre 2: There's soooo much involved in Halo 1 ahhhhh i miss it TSquared: I hate Halo 2. If you're going to blame anything, blame it on Halo 2 for being such a bad game. TSquared: Pretty much the answer to that is Halo 2 is inconsistent and is a horrible tournament game. TSquared: H1 is more fun, more competitive and is a better game. H1 take more skill, it's a fact. TSquared: I love how many edits you have to make in gametypes to make Halo 2 even a semi-decent game. Shockwav3: The best way I could sum up a perfect competitive game would be Halo: CE Team Slayer on Damnation. Strangepurple: Not a single pro that I know likes H2 more than the original, and these are people that are good at both games. Saiyan: [Halo 2 is] not even comparable to Halo 1 in terms of fun factor and skill differential. Vash: I think 1.5 will probably not come out but I would like it to because well, H1 > H2 Karma: Halo 2 sucks. McGavin: Yeah, I hate this gay game. ^^^^^^^^^^ I'm with them. Especially Shockwav3. And Vash.

[Jironimo]

You quote these people like I care. They're nobody as far as I'm concerned, especially T-Squared. Like I've said before, this shit's like high-school. These little teenagers jumped on the "I hate H2" bandwagon and think they're so cool for being non-conformist. Even you don't care what they say, you're still gonna go buy H3 even though you and your idols hated H2. Like I said before, you're just like me in a sense, a fanboy through and through.

[BRASH]

Wise words from the pros. Halo 2, it sucks.

[Syracuse022]

I love how BRASH just seems to egg me on all the time. I can't tell if he shares my opinion or just thinks it's funny that I share mine so much. Either way, I'm going to have to say that the Ogres may be much better at sniping than I, but I am much more effective at arguing why I dislike Halo 2. That said, I'm not above implying and invoking the game's blatant homosexuality when it makes me especially mad, especially when lunges inexplicably miss or vehicles run me over because I can't do anything to them without auto-lock rockets. That shit is whack.

[Jironimo]

That said, I'm not above implying and invoking the game's blatant homosexuality when it makes me especially mad, especially when lunges inexplicably miss or vehicles run me over because I can't do anything to them without auto-lock rockets.

That shit is whack.

So whack that you played it for hundreds of hours right. Why?

[BRASH]

Halo 2 can suck my man cannon.

[Syracuse022]

So whack that you played it for hundreds of hours right. Why?

Long answer: Square peg, round hole syndrome. I keep wanting it to be something it's not (a basic, by the formula follow-up instead of a complete change of form), and something inside of me dies everytime Zanzibar loads and I realize that nothing (physics, weapons) is as I would expect or hope. I'd give anything to play Halo 1 (with the tweaks that WERE effective like "Hold X to pick up the flag", higher jumping, and more options for gametypes) on the maps that Halo 2 offers. You're right. Most of them are fantastic, and everything from Containment and Waterworks to Terminal and Zanzibar with more typical maps like Colossus and Lockout would be "sexy time" in the H1 engine. I can't tell you how many times I played through the Campaign on Legendary early on, wanting H2 to be something it's not, and I can't tell you how much I tried to enjoy multiplayer, insisting that it's Halo TWO, so it has to be better. Do you remember how GOD-AWFUL Halo 2 1.0 was? And 1.1 still doesn't come close to the game I love. But I was desperately trying to find the fun that Halo 1 had provided for me for 3 years in a game that just doesn't have it. "I can't have waited for so long, so impatiently for something this disappointing," I kept telling myself. And like I said, the bottom of the learning curve in Halo 2 is fantastic, and perhaps even more inviting than Halo 1. Remember when I was one of the worst players in the clan? Not even considered for stuff like that Halo2MVP.com tournament we competed in? In fact, during a break in the action, BRASH offered to switch spots with me (the rest of us were tooling around in a custom game) and I declined because I was ashamed that I was too much of a n00b. If you don't remember it, I know most of the guys do, because I started hanging around with the MLG guys and almost instantaneously I became a completely different player. That climb up the learning curve? I was still engaged for that. Too bad I started getting closer and closer to the top (and subsequently improved at Halo 1) and recognized the complete lack of depth in the mechanics that H2 is built around. It's not fun to no longer be able to improve certain skills- where my melees in H1 can always improve, put it on Boxer in H2 (which I did- a revo-fucking-lution that rained B-X-Rs all over your poor little heads) and roll the dice baby. Where I have once in my life managed to lead a speeding Warthog and nail it from across Blood Gulch, I can do it whenever I want in Halo 2, because the game does it for me. That's not fun. It's not like this is some completely new thing... Some 16 months ago I tried to mod Halo 2 to make it play like Halo 1. Map I chose to start the project on? Colossus because I steadfastly maintain that weapons on timers, the pistol, and a sniper with a 2x zoom would make that one of my favorite maps. I did fairly decently, but then just gave up. And played some more Halo 1. Also, notice how the more these realizations took hold, the less I played this game? Look at my Games page on b.net- I only get on from time to time to hang out with you guys. Which brings me to...

Short answer: The Ephorate, especially guys like Voc and Van, and how much I enjoy not just playing with them but also talking about serious (and nerdy) stuff (Van, my girlfriend knows you now- as Steve-O because when I call you Vanwadilion she gets confused- as the guy with whom I decided that 1st base would be holding hands. Also as the guy whose knee is a mess right now :sad: She had knee trouble this year too (MCL)). Believe me, if Halo 1 had the easy access online play of its successor, I'd never accept another H2 game invite ever again. The hundreds of hours I've spent on Live still pales in comparison to the hours I've spent at LANs playing Halo 1, or holed up in my room playing levels like Halo and the Silent Cartographer. Pretty impressive/sad, eh? In fact, (this is so sad)- I played an hour of H1 campaign today and spent probably 2 hours sniping standing still people (I plugged in my other two controllers) on Chill Out, Dammy, Derelict, Wizard, and Blood Gulch. I desperately NEED somebody to LAN with. I'm dying up here. I got so incredibly jealous when Dual got to go play with Voc in FL. Fuck. Somebody come play H1 with me... Please?

[Jironimo]

Ok, so if H2 is soooo broken, why did it take you so long to realize it? It doesn't make any sense, it's a totally different game according to you, yet it took you such a long time to realize it. If it were that broken wouldn't you have known it in the first 50 hours, not after starting to play with pros and ramping up your skills, etc.

[Syracuse022]

Because I was stupid and bad. Apparently I'm still stupid since I won't buy a helmet with a game inside for 100 dollars, but I now know which game in the Halo series is better. I'll give you a hint. One I'm still playing after five years, the other most of the clan is tired of after two.

[DualX]

It's not much, but we can try to play some Halo 1 together through Xbox Connect. Anyone else can join unless Cuse wants to make this strictly 1v1.

[Supa Ben]

It's not much, but we can try to play some Halo 1 together through Xbox Connect. Anyone else can join unless Cuse wants to make this strictly 1v1.

Anytime :thumbsup:

[phreak]

Syracuse, I've always found your criticisms of Halo 2 spot-on. It just isn't even in the same league as Halo 2, and the only reason a lot of us have played it online for any amount of time is because Halo 1 isn't on LIVE. I get so frustrated when the people around here want to play a Halo 2 LAN instead of H1. I was so hyped about Halo 2 before release, but I literally got bored of the game within the first 2 weeks. And I still to this day get bored of the game about 2 minutes after I start playing. The only reason I even log on is because I enjoy playing with some of you guys. It has to be one of the most boring FPSs I've ever played. Unfortunately, what terrifies me the most with as good as Halo 1 MP was and as bad as Halo 2 MP was, is that I firmly believe Halo 1 was an accident. Bungie didn't design that multiplayer, it threw it in as an afterthought, using the weapons as they had been designed for single-player. When it came to making Halo 2, Bungie sat down and tried to design the multiplayer, thought about it way too much, ended up dumbing it down for the mass market, and finally sucked all the fun out of it. That's why I'm not getting excited for Halo 3, because I'd be very suprised if they can actually design something as fun as Halo 1. It looks great, the features sound great, but if that core gameplay is still in place from Halo 2, to me that is going to be a complete waste of a game and so much potential.

[Syracuse022]

How's this for intelligent: If Bungie, instead of giving me two discs worth of filler (RvB, cutscenes) in my McGameInAHelmet, gave me something like this: Halo 1 with online play (network code would need complete and total reworking, but since Bungie no longer has any problem with farming out their franchise to anyone and everone (see: H2V, Halo Wars, Movie Director does Halo) I don't see why they can't hire "________ Studios" and say they wouldn't trust thier franchise with anybody else they way they have for all of the above (and more: comics, action figures, books) to work on it while Bungie focuses on Halo 3) Halo 2 with who cares (I'd leave it in the shrink wrap) - I'm sure they'd put all of the maps on and maybe apply the patch changes to Campaign so that grenades actually do something and melee combat is slightly less worthless (but equally lungy; pronounced: "gay") Halo 3 The making of DVD I'd pay $100 (or more) for it. P.S. OMG Lungie Studios. I love it.

[mattacus]

hell, they let gearbox add network code for OG Halo on the PC. really, how much more difficult would it be to slap on a new coat of textures and a new network code--especially if someone else is doing it and you don't have to worry about it.

[Syracuse022]

Unfortunately, what terrifies me the most with as good as Halo 1 MP was and as bad as Halo 2 MP was, is that I firmly believe Halo 1 was an accident. Bungie didn't design that multiplayer, it threw it in as an afterthought, using the weapons as they had been designed for single-player. When it came to making Halo 2, Bungie sat down and tried to design the multiplayer, thought about it way too much, ended up dumbing it down for the mass market, and finally sucked all the fun out of it.

That's why I'm not getting excited for Halo 3, because I'd be very suprised if they can actually design something as fun as Halo 1. It looks great, the features sound great, but if that core gameplay is still in place from Halo 2, to me that is going to be a complete waste of a game and so much potential.

The Halo circles in which I reside, both online and at home, want nothing to do with Halo 2. What's so frightening to me is that these circles (as far as I can tell) are the minority. Hardcore fans, the ones who played Halo 1 for hours and know the game like the back of their hand, are hard to come by if my experience lurking on a few Halo forums holds any weight. EVERYONE at places like GameFAQs and TeamXbox sounds like Supa Ben and Ivan. It's so disappointing.

At first, when the Halo 3 info came out, I got so excited. The maps are beautiful, truly, stunningly gorgeous, and if I knew I was going to play a game that rewarded skill on them, I probably would have cried. But after Halo 2, I just don't know... Halo 3 will be fun, but will it be rewarding enough to keep me coming back after a while? I'm not holding my breath either. Bungie's storylines seem to be about as deep as they come. Too bad things like lock-on rockets and lunge melees make the gameplay so shallow...

Little present for Ivan, Supa, and the rest of his 'football team'...


What's really funny is how at the pro level Halo 2 has basically devolved into Super Smash Bros. with all of the button combos and glitches you have to use to win. People thought Halo 1 had glitches? Halo 2's got so many it's out of control (double shot, B-X-R, fast switches, the panda switch, tantrums/ghosting, auto-reloads... ha, most of you don't know half of those...), and at the top level, to win, you have to use them... I'm glad some people find that fun. I'll stick with Halo 1, personally.

Edited by Syracuse022, 03 November 2006 - 03:05 PM.

[MoNuckah]

I would kill for my old 'box back. Reading all the shit about H1 vs. H2 is making me really miss H1. I was bored with H2 after a month or so, it just doesn't have the feel. I think jesusphreak was right about Bungie stumbling on MP genius it by accident. Before I tossed the old box I used to do the same thing as 'cuse. Plug in the 2nd controller and run around shooting them. All the while wishing that H2 was as much fun. When deciding what game to play, I look through the library and I always wish Halo: Combat Evolved was there. >sniff< And ivan, I didn't decide this because I think its the 'cool' thing to do, its just been my opinion for awhile. Its why I was one of the first to stop playing it.

[Syracuse022]

I've got at least 3 copies lying around up here at college. I think they all have a few scratches, but I'd be happy to send you one...

[Jironimo]

And ivan, I didn't decide this because I think its the 'cool' thing to do, its just been my opinion for awhile. Its why I was one of the first to stop playing it.

Cuse mentioned that he wishes they put in an online version of HCE in the legendary Helmet of H3. I wish they would do that too, so once and for all everyone could play it to death and see what garbage it is online. I've played the Gearbox version of HCE for the PC like crazy, it's fun but the shit that happens in that game is ridiculous. That's with dedicated servers, HCE on XBC was even more shitty. You guys would rant 10 times as much if you were stuck playing that online all the time. I also don't even want to hear "they should redo the network code" because you can't do that without changing the whole game engine.

Some people might say they should have just left online out in that case and stayed true to the exact original gameplay mechanics. The whole Halo world shitted themselves with the ending to H2, imagine if they just decided to leave online out before the game even came out. Needless to say it would have been much, much worse.

Damned it if you do, damned if you don't. Plain and simple. Some people just like to bitch about what's wrong with things instead of seeing what they have.

[phreak]

Cuse mentioned that he wishes they put in an online version of HCE in the legendary Helmet of H3. I wish they would do that too, so once and for all everyone could play it to death and see what garbage it is online. I've played the Gearbox version of HCE for the PC like crazy, it's fun but the shit that happens in that game is ridiculous. That's with dedicated servers, HCE on XBC was even more shitty. You guys would rant 10 times as much if you were stuck playing that online all the time. I also don't even want to hear "they should redo the network code" because you can't do that without changing the whole game engine.

When people like Syracuse talk about wanting an online-enabled version of Halo 1, they aren't talking about the same game with the same network code except it can access LIVE. They are talking about the network code being revamped to play successfully online.

And yes, Halo on the PC was garbage, but it just isn't the same game as Halo on the console. Really.

I also don't think it would be terribly difficult to redo the network code alone, generally devs design their programs modularly so that you can change one aspect without affecting another. I don't think it is a matter of making Halo 1 online being impossible, but rather that Bungie has no desire to do it, and I don't blame them.

Some people might say they should have just left online out in that case and stayed true to the exact original gameplay mechanics. The whole Halo world shitted themselves with the ending to H2, imagine if they just decided to leave online out before the game even came out. Needless to say it would have been much, much worse.

Eh, I really don't think anyone feels like that. Although when you put it that way, I'm tempted to say I'd rather have Halo 1 mechanics than have Halo online, really. People aren't saying 'drop the online and bring back the Halo 1 mechanics', they are saying that they wish Bungie could've stayed true to the feeling of Halo 1 and made it LIVE enabled, instead of creating something that plays completely different.

Damned it if you do, damned if you don't. Plain and simple. Some people just like to bitch about what's wrong with things instead of seeing what they have.

Ivan, I've tried liking Halo 2. I really have. Just like Syracuse has stated in this thread, I think just about every fan of Halo 1 has at one time or another given Halo 2 a real chance, hoped that it could be a lot of fun, regardless of if it isn't Halo 1. But it just isn't the same, and the fun isn't there. Let's say Halo 1 didn't ever exist, I could play Halo 2 online all freaking day and still not think it is a good game.

I really don't know what your arguement was there Ivan. The fact is, there were lots of people really hyped up about Halo 2 based upon how much enjoyment they got out of Halo 1, and they ended up completely disappointed. You can't blame those people, its not as if they expected something better than the original and they overhyped it, its that they expected something similar to the original and it was totally different. You can't blame anyone but Bungie there. Actually I blame Microsoft - MS pushed Bungie to make Halo 2 friendly for 10-year olds and soccer moms, and pushed Bungie for it to be accessible to everyone. Well, they did a really good job, unfortunately that choice completely alienated a lot of their original fanbase.

As a sidenote, I think it is really interesting comparing the Halo franchise to that of another FPS - the Starsiege: Tribes franchise. Tribes was a sci-fi type game set in space and with armor, vehicles, massive maps, you name it. In a lot of ways it was very similar to Halo, infact when Halo was originally set to come out on the PC, the big competition was gonna be which was better - Halo or Tribes 2. You see, Tribes became a cult classic mainly because of an accident by the developers. Tribes was based around jetpacks and it just so happened that a glitch in the game engine allowed players to jump down hills repeatedly and pick up speed right before hitting the jetpack to propel themselves to great speeds. They players would virtually skip across the map, catching one hill after another to keep up their momentum. This quickly became known as 'skiing' and was an integral part of the game. Unfortunately after the success of Tribes 1, a lot of people anticipated Tribes 2, and similarly it ended up being a good, albeit very different game from Tribes 1. Most people who loved Tribes 1 hated Tribes 2, and vice versa. After Halo went to the Xbox, you never saw the comparisons anymore, but it was interesting to see those franchises go their own way. The main difference will be that Tribes: Vengeance (Tribes 3) ended up being a complete disaster, and Halo 3 regardless of how it plays is guaranteed to be a blockbuster.

Edited by jesusphreak, 03 November 2006 - 08:31 PM.