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#1 CandyKid

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 01:01 PM

Windows 7

All I feel is that M$ has given up on vista...

#2 Anpheus

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 02:44 PM

Howso? Support is continuing for Vista and SP2 should be out next year. Vista's support will end some time in the next decade. 2014? Windows Server 2008 uses the same kernel and all security patches can be applied on both, so if 2008 gets security updates until 2018, you've got ten years to buy a new PC and switch in a couple years, or eight years to buy a new PC with Windows 7.

#3 UHYVE

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 06:44 PM

Yeah, I've been keeping up with some of the Windows 7 stuff as well. I'm actually kind of excited about it. And while I don't think MS is giving up on supporting Vista, I'll probably be going to Windows 7 as soon as it comes out... I love the eye candy. I really like the new startbar kinda thing, if you watch the PDC keynotes, you'll see that it's probably one of the biggest changes since Windows 95 (though if you don't think about GUIs, that's probably not really saying much).

Edited by UHYVE, 31 October 2008 - 06:44 PM.


#4 Anpheus

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 11:27 PM

I think that Microsoft... has gone through some growing pains. And that this is the start of a new trend for them. They want to break out of this mold that they have to support backward compatibility perpetually, because it really is a lot of bloat. If you've ever read Raymond Chen's blog, The Old New Thing, you know that there are still patches in Vista that basically detect when a program is buggy, emulates the buggy behavior only to that program, and lets it do things in a wrong way without crashing.

That's a ton of bloat, that's a lot of stuff that Microsoft would like to completely wash their hands of. To a small degree, they started to do that with the driver model in Vista. That's, so to speak, step one. Step two is to break compatibility with applications, and that's going to happen when they have a way to virtualize them, basically, put all applications, old and new, in their own completely safe sandbox where they can't mess anything up unless you explicitly allow them to. That's digressing though, and ultimately Windows 7 is basically Vista redux, and has virtually the same kernel, but has more polish.

This is much like the current Intel model. They have a 'tick' and a 'tock,' first they break with the past and design a new chip architecture using the existing fabrication technology, then they work on shrinking that down with upgraded fabrication, maintaining all the features. Windows Vista was a break with the past, with a new driver model and a lot of new features built into the kernel, and Windows 7 is virtually the same kernel, with minor enhancements, and a lot more polish with the implementation. So Windows 7 should be, hopefully will be, leaner and meaner. Windows 8, likely, will introduce another break, hopefully with fewer problems than Vista's.

Edited by Anpheus, 31 October 2008 - 11:28 PM.


#5 UHYVE

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 03:35 PM

So, I've just been trying out build 7000 of Windows 7... and it's good. I mean, it's way past Vista RTM quality, and we're still a couple of months away from release afaik. There's practically no problems, it takes a little while to get used to the new superbar, but it's not too bad, in fact, I may not turn it off. I've only noticed a few glitches so far (mainly in IE8) and the driver situation is currently better than in Vista for me (I've got a graphics tablet which I had a hellish time with in Vista, works out of the box with 7).

Check the pretty:

Posted Image

#6 vociferous

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:15 PM

So, I've just been trying out build 7000 of Windows 7... and it's good.

Yeah, I've had my copy since 12/26 and it's been really bug free for the most part. I have yet to seriously use IE8 (I prefer Firefox), but I understand that's had some issues. Overall, solid build, solid UI and I'd recommend this to anyone who has Vista SP1...hell, I'd recommend it to everyone. It's that good.

#7 DualX

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:29 PM

I saw the Microsoft CES demo of this OS and it does look interesting. How well does it handle games and whatnot?

#8 txlonghorn

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:35 PM

So I am wondering how this OS handles games and things like that?

#9 Anpheus

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:35 PM

The kernel's driver system is largely the same as Vista's to avoid that enormous hurdle Vista posed to hardware companies in continuing their product support.

This is why initial reaction to 7 is so overwhelmingly positive: the majority of the problems with Vista in the first place were third party drivers.

7 does have a more modular kernel, better memory management, better lock management, a cleaner and more thoroughly tweaked UI, and other benefits. I don't want to dismiss the work the MSFT engineers did on the kernel, as they've done -a lot- to improve it and those improvements will only really show in certain performance benchmarks. For the most part, you and I won't notice it.

I'm going to be installing it on my desktop on an empty partition tomorrow evening, and I'll let you guys know how everything runs. Initial reports lead me to believe that there are essentially no compatibility problems with Vista, and all the features in it just work, without any problem.

Bottom line is, unless tomorrow's install experience contradicts the widespread public opinion and benchmarking, Windows 7 is what Vista should have been, but could not have been, due to that driver change. No matter what, Microsoft was going to have a problem there, whether they introduced it in Vista or 7 or 8 or whatever.

Edited by Anpheus, 11 January 2009 - 07:35 PM.


#10 vociferous

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 08:55 PM

I haven't played any games on it, but Ivan might give a few titles a run and report back.

I can say that performance-wise, from my own experience, it runs incredibly smooth. I had Vista SP1 and operate with 1GB of RAM on this particular machine, running Photoshop, Dreamweaver, several Firefox tabs and a film, and I would have issues here and there. With Windows 7, there are none. I'm pretty certain this involves some of the elaborations Anpheus offered, because I know there is less throttling from a usability standpoint. The UAC nonsense has been largely alleviated, which was a major problem for me with Vista. The thing I like the most about the OS is the UI:

Posted Image

This image shows that I've completely customized my taskbar and start menu to reflect the directories and applications which are most important to me. You can pin to either of them and the taskbar designates what you have open and what you don't. When you have multiple windows of something open, you can run your cursor over each window (which appears like Vista) and close them out individually. Thanks to this new system, any launch programs like Rocketdock can be kicked to the curb because they are redundant and not as functional. And if you look to the far right you'll see a bar which is vertical against the time/date -- that's the peek option and it lets you take a look at your desktop without minimizing anything. The same exact function occurs when you rollover an existing program in your taskbar and highlight the popup window referencing it.

Posted Image

Here's a movie playing in the background to show how they reformatted WMP. I used VLC because of its format compatibility and its streamlined frame, but I have yet to go back to VLC since I've had this version of WMP. Also, not shown, both Wordpad and MS Paint have the ribbon from Office '07, very slick additions for those who don't want a full-bodied app like Word or Photoshop. In the above shot, I'm clicking on the arrow which shows you your systray. You can easily control and hide it like the linen room closet it should be but has never been. And of course, that doesn't include Libraries, the jump menu and the handful of other really cool changes they made here -- as well as the sleek glass finish.

Overall, Win7 has impressed me a great deal.

#11 UHYVE

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:04 PM

Huh, I didn't realize that you can customize the start menu. That's really cool. I've been complaining about the start menu for ages (I hate that Music and Pictures is on there, but not videos). I'm actually really looking forward to a few more programs using the Superbar. Mainly because I've only been using Internet Explorer in Windows 7 and I'd like to get back to Opera/Firefox. But also because I think it could be really useful in some programs (I can only think of Visual Studio benefiting right now, but that's just because I've been programming all night). While WMP12 is really pretty now, I've not really been using it. I don't know if anyone else uses ffdshow but I couldn't get it working in WMP12. And since ffdshow works just fine in Media Player Classic, I've been sticking with that so far. Note: For people who haven't heard of ffdshow before, it's a universal opensource codec with the ability to upscale and postprocess videos.

#12 Anpheus

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:59 PM

You know, it is Vista Redux, but they fixed a lot of things and gave it a high level of fit and finish. By Vista SP1, I really had no complaints about Vista anyway, so I give Windows 7 an A.

Edited by Anpheus, 13 January 2009 - 08:59 PM.


#13 Jironimo

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 07:23 AM

For anyone interested in a cheap copy of the best Windows OS to ever come out, if you have a .edu email address you can get a full version of either Win 7 Home Premium or Win 7 Pro at the link below.

http://win741.com/

#14 vtancredi

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 10:39 AM

For anyone interested in a cheap copy of the best Windows OS to ever come out, if you have a .edu email address you can get a full version of either Win 7 Home Premium or Win 7 Pro at the link below.

http://win741.com/


Wow, nice find!! I still have my college address so I'm gonna do it!

Windows 7 really seems to be what Vista should have been. It does actually include a virtual XP environment for backwards compatibility, but -oopsie- it doesn't support direct3d. So that means it is only for business apps e.g. corporate customers with custom built business applications.
You'll still have the same old game compatibility problems.


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