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What I don't love about Halo


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#1 Va1or

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 09:32 PM

Don't get me wrong, I love Halo like warm breezy sunsets and newborn kittens...but it still has some issues. This is a thread for all of the critiques you have about Halo. I'm not asking for rants about melee lunges or rocket lock-on etc. Not the technical gameplay stuff. Though I won't be a stickler on this point if you feel the need to vent. I'm asking for stuff you think is lame with the story, the characters, dialogue, artwork, community, whatever. It can be totally trivial or in-depth.

Lemme tell you a few of mine.

The return of Sarge.

Was he really that funny/lovable to have to bring him back? I don't think so. I think it kind of took something away from the ending of Halo 1. The lone hero leaving the desolation and destruction in a bittersweet triumph. "Just dust and echoes," anyone? Boren's Syndrome? C'mon. The flood consumed the cigar chompin' brotha and we all know it.

Cortana's Arm Warmers

What's the deal with Cortana's 1980's style arm warmers. Here's a pic of some groovy arm warmers.
http://www.mydivascl.../noname123.html. here's a pic of our favorite leading lady http://halo.neoseeke...p?image_id=1661. See what I mean? I hope Cortana gets a cooler looking new "body suit" in general for H3.

Female Marines

What do you guys think of the Hispanic female marine in the beginning of the bridge level of Halo 2? Rememer, the man is pussing out and then Corporal Latina Butch tells him to rock up? Please. She usually eats a few Battle Rifle rounds right from the get-go so I don't have to hear her "tough" one-liners. Of course, if the chick was scared and the guy rebuked her, that would be non-PC sexism. Notice how the he-marines have cowardly one-liners like, "we're all gonna die!" etc. Instead of a courageous band of brothers (see Gears of War) we get Beetle Bailey and the gang. However, the she-marines are all, "yes sir!", "no sir", "kill em all sir!" Are you guys sick of tough Latino chicks yet? I didn't even think it was cool in Aliens. I think Bungie is trying too hard.

Female Spartans

I'm sorry, but if you are developing a super soldier program for the fastest, strongest, best soldiers in the world to defend your planet and you have limited resources and availabilities, you aren't picking a bunch of girls. Boys are naturally much more aggressive, much faster and much stronger. Why aren't there any female Navy Seals or Air Assault Rangers? There may be multiple reasons, but surely one of the big ones is that boys make better soldiers. Period. Again, Bungie is trying too hard (See Gears of War here as well).

Drones

Where did these insectoid bores come from? They have zero personality. They simply seem like flying bugs with guns. Every other member of the Covenant is cool except these guys. Please Bungie, change their design and give them some personality for H3.

That's all I've got for now. How about you?

#2 BRASH

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 09:44 PM

Dude, I so kill that chick in the beginning of the bridge lvl. I have complaints with the artwork in Halo 2, like some of the shrubbery being blocky in it's flat, 2D form. I could swear the lining of detail in Halo 1 was twice as crisp as that of Halo 2. I guess my biggest complaint are the linear level designs in Single Player, and second would be all the stuff they left out that I wanted to see: Engineers, water boats, those giant flood monsters. Oh, I can't help but complain about Halo2's music choice. The guitars are ok for a portion of the game, but once I hop in a banshee to chase after the heretic, I can't stand that god-damned song. I hear the words ringing in my head as I recall them from the soundtrack. Drives me nuts.
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#3 Blaze

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:39 PM

Halo 2.

#4 Jironimo

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:44 PM

Oh Valor. You don't know what you just started. Wait till you hear what Syracuse has to say.

#5 Kinetic

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 05:12 AM

Oh Valor. You don't know what you just started. Wait till you hear what Syracuse has to say.

Yep.

Valor, you have no idea of the maelstrom you've just unleashed.

#6 Syracuse022

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:43 AM

Halo 2.

That's the short answer.

But I figure I'll give our new buddy Valor a little bit more to chew on. Welcome, by the way...

1) Boss battles. End of discussion. They don't belong.

2) Weapon inconsistencies - So, um, I guess the planet that made all of the good guns got glassed? Is that how we ended up with a nerfed Assault Rifle, a nerfed pistol, and a shotgun that is about as useful as a melee weapon? (Its usefulness as a melee weapon is saying a lot considering the sad state of lunge melees) But then, did the other Spartans sneak into Covenant-held space and blow up their major arms supply chain? Because now plasma weapons don't freeze your target. And now swords don't self-destruct (seems like a safety feature I would keep around, personally). And yet, with all of these diminished capabilities, rockets and plasma pistol overcharges have been developed to the very peak of technological power, able to home like nobody's business. The factories that seem to have been hit the hardest however, are those in charge of ammunition, since our ammunition is now so shitty that it disintegrates in mid-air long before its useful effective range has been passed.

3) Jackal snipers. Fantastic on paper, but as a gameplay implementation, they're broken.

4) Elites that speak English. Opens a whole 'nother can of worms:

5) The Arbiter. Almost everything wrong with Halo 2 can be traced back to this fucker. Again, great as a story device, maybe in a comic. But he broke that game. Which brings me to my next point:

6) Covenant Civil War - Now who can the Master Chief shoot? Let's see, Flood, more Flood. Jackals, Sentinels, Brutes, and Boss Battles. Clearly this new plot development has not gotten in the way of gameplay at all, as Bungie has stripped the game down to its most basic and fun elements.... not. Again, amazing as a plot device, but they've sacrificed gameplay for it...

7) Story Structure- I mean, while we're bashing Halo 2's story developments, might as well bash the Story Structure as well. Could we jump around any more? The first game's story was structured so that even though there were ellipses, it felt as though you were in the thick of a battle for an ancient alien construct, fighting through to the finish. Halo 2's story, with all of its "sophistication" jumps all over the place, and couldn't be less immersive, in my opinion.


That's all I've got for now. Fuck the police. For the most part, I avoided gameplay complaints, which could occupy a much longer rant... some time, good buddy, some time...

#7 Va1or

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 09:12 AM

6) Covenant Civil War - Now who can the Master Chief shoot? Let's see, Flood, more Flood. Jackals, Sentinels, Brutes, and Boss Battles. Clearly this new plot development has not gotten in the way of gameplay at all, as Bungie has stripped the game down to its most basic and fun elements.... not. Again, amazing as a plot device, but they've sacrificed gameplay for it...


I'm really hoping that the Master Chief can fight against the entire "Covenant" plus the Flood in H3. This is only possible if some Elites have remained loyal to the prophets just as a small faction of Elites rebelled before the civil war (Heretics). But even so, it seems that it wouldn't be the old-school Covenant with the Elites controlling the military because of the Brute takeover. That kind of sucks because Elites are the coolest. I can't believe Bungie will take away the best NPC enemies in the series altogether.

7) Story Structure- I mean, while we're bashing Halo 2's story developments, might as well bash the Story Structure as well. Could we jump around any more? The first game's story was structured so that even though there were ellipses, it felt as though you were in the thick of a battle for an ancient alien construct, fighting through to the finish. Halo 2's story, with all of its "sophistication" jumps all over the place, and couldn't be less immersive, in my opinion.


I really hear you here. I remember, I think it was Joe Staten, who promised something like a "galactic romp." I guess that's what we got. At points it did seem like an incoherent mishmash with all of the travelling and the switching back and forth between the two main protagonists. This probably hit us especially hard after Halo 1's formula which can be boiled down to: fight above Halo, fight on Halo, destroy Halo and fly away from Halo.

#8 DualX

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:04 AM

Aside from what all has been said, what about the game not really seeming "futuristic" enough? I mean the game takes place 546 years from now, and most of the weaponry doesn't seem like it has progressed much over that period of time. Games like Battlefield 2142 seem a hell of a lot more futuristic than Halo, and yes I can say this having played the beta, but because of certain agreements I'm not allowed to talk about the game. Another thing that bothered me was that you weren't really able to control some of the soldiers that were with you. All they did was follow, and shoot. It would be kinda nice to be able to position that soldier with a Sniper Rifle to higher ground while getting the rest of them placed behind cover to ambush a Covenant assault.

#9 Blaze

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:29 AM

Aside from what all has been said, what about the game not really seeming "futuristic" enough? I mean the game takes place 546 years from now, and most of the weaponry doesn't seem like it has progressed much over that period of time. Games like Battlefield 2142 seem a hell of a lot more futuristic than Halo, and yes I can say this having played the beta, but because of certain agreements I'm not allowed to talk about the game.

We don't know how futuristic the future will be, so who's to say what and what isn't futuristic enough in a game.

Another thing that bothered me was that you weren't really able to control some of the soldiers that were with you. All they did was follow, and shoot. It would be kinda nice to be able to position that soldier with a Sniper Rifle to higher ground while getting the rest of them placed behind cover to ambush a Covenant assault.

Halo is not a squad based shooter. Yes, it would make tons of sense if Master Chief could tell those little fuckers what and where to go, but Halo is about our lone hero surviving the impossible.

#10 SharpeWolfe

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 10:40 AM

Agreed Blaze...having, say, a Marine with a sniper leading an assault from the front makes no sense while the guy with the SMG is in the back... And as to the Drones...if they had been done differently they might have been kind of cool, however I didn't play Halo just so I could shoot oversized flies that carry plasma pistols...I mean, if they could have beam rifles, that might work better than Jackals, because they could get some really good vantage points...or swords, THEN they might be allright...
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#11 DualX

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:12 AM

We don't know how futuristic the future will be, so who's to say what and what isn't futuristic enough in a game.

This is modern stuff I'm talking about here that you don't see in Halo. Stuff like UAV's, weapons that are accurate and have a more variety of, and some unique weapon tools like the Corner-Shot.

Halo is not a squad based shooter.

I understand this, but not being able to order some soldiers around when they actually do help you is kinda stupid.

Female Marines
Female Spartans

If the Covanent is waging war against the entire human race then it honestly shouldn't matter wether or not a female should fight. That reminds me of Matrix: Revolutions where they allowed a kid to help in the fight against the machines even though he wasn't 18, since the machines would kill him wether he was of age to fight or not.

#12 Blaze

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:18 AM

...and some unique weapon tools like the Corner-Shot.

Halo is probably too fast-paced for a weapon like that. Halo also emphasizes the idea that Master Chief is a weapon, and I honestly don't think he needs gadgets or UAV's to help him get the job done.

#13 Va1or

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:27 AM

If the Covanent is waging war against the entire human race then it honestly shouldn't matter wether or not a female should fight.



Actually my problem is that the female Marines are portrayed in what I consider a cheesy way. I don't doubt that humanity would use women to fight in an alien onslaught if it meant the very survival of the race.

Again though, I think females would be excluded from the elite ranks of the Spartans because there was limited "seats" for the positions. The positions would go to the best warrior candidates, men.

Edited by Valor, 17 September 2006 - 11:28 AM.


#14 phreak

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:31 AM

Wow I never took you guys as a bunch of Halo 2 haters - you all play it so often. But amen. Halo 2 stinks for a lot of reasons; perhaps the main one being that Halo 1 was so great in so many ways and Halo 2 just abandoned those pieces that made it great. Seriously Halo 1 and Halo 2 pretty much are similar only in settings and characters. Other than that they are two completely different games, in how they play and everything else.

Edited by jesusphreak, 17 September 2006 - 11:45 AM.


#15 Blaze

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:33 AM

Wow I never took you guys as a bunch of Halo 2 haters - you all play it so often.

Ivan loves Halo 2, so we play it all the time. Go figure.

#16 BRASH

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 12:15 PM

Actually my problem is that the female Marines are portrayed in what I consider a cheesy way. I don't doubt that humanity would use women to fight in an alien onslaught if it meant the very survival of the race.

Again though, I think females would be excluded from the elite ranks of the Spartans because there was limited "seats" for the positions. The positions would go to the best warrior candidates, men.


Earth must be REALLY low on marine troops to put women like the one on the bridge into active duty. Valor, you remember the second female marine encounter when you're actually inside the bridge; she offers you her shotgun. I didn't find her to be too bad, but that bitch in the beginning. She gets my money shot to the head every time.

I'm with you on female marines 100%.

PS. Blaze, I like your penguin. I drew a piece in high school that had a penguin on a beach, mimicking the stretched flippers of a resting sea turtle.
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#17 mattacus

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 02:16 PM

PS. Blaze, I like your penguin. I drew a piece in high school that had a penguin on a beach, mimicking the stretched flippers of a resting sea turtle.


Wow. That's so random...if someone sees that in this thread, your post will be "beleted."


EDIT: AND WHERE THE HELL IS MY AVATAR?!

#18 vociferous

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:45 PM

Let's face it. He's a random guy.

I love discussions about these sorts of things because they're not really based on fact. It's Opinion Day in Opinion World, and we've all brought our Opinions in for show and tell. I have my opinions about Halo 2 (since this discussion is/already has been reduced to that) and since I like listing things...here they are in random preservation:
  • Halo 2 is a great game. Nay, it's an amazing game. This game defines the second half of the original Xbox's shelf life and it wasn't even around until the last year. But it wasn't perfect...so I'll just address what has been written here plus a few others at the end.
  • Valor, I agree with the female Spartan comment, but it is fiction. This is the first thing I had to suspend my disbelief over, and then came the aliens, space battles, and ring weapons. The Drones were worthless in Halo 2, both story-wise and from an implementation standpoint. Bungie obviously wanted to add a character for the Covenant and the Drinol Beast was the last thing that didn't make the final cut. The Drones were cannon fodder and even their animations are annoying. I do, however, enjoy the Brutes.
  • BRASH, I agree with your comment about the linear nature of the levels. That was the worst element of the campaign in my opinion. Incubus and Breaking Benjamin should not be in a Halo video game. Not ever. Steve Vai is the only one who can have a pass, and even then you're pushing the envelope.
  • Cuse, I'm going to agree with you on the boss battles (I'm not losing any sleep over it like you, but it is a little too Metroid Prime-ish) and weapon inconsistencies (yeah, they're there, but a lot of the problem is lying in the network code - at LANs the weapons seem much stronger and more accurate to me because of the lack of serious lag and host issues)...
  • Everything else I'm going to call you out on: the Arbiter, the Covenant Civil War, and the story structure for Halo 2 are some of it's finest points. Halo: Combat Evolved did not have an original story by any stretch of the imagination. It could have easily been thrown together in an hour or two by anyone who has seen Aliens and Dawn of the Dead. The gameplay and art direction/visuals are what really made the story seem so rich, everything else was single-threaded elementary-constructed trash. Was it fun? Yeah. Was it original? No. Halo 2's multi-threaded "galactic romp" was the definition of epic. Had it ended where it was originally intended to (the Chief and the Arbiter's arrival at the Ark on the road to Voi), most of you guys would be humming a different tune. Let me tackle that Elite's speak English/the Arbiter comment first: Obviously (apart from explaining the technological reasons why the Elites' native language can now be translated for Marines), in order for us to know the story of the Arbiter, the Elites need to speak English. Why is his story so important? Because there isn't anyone else to follow? What's that? The Master Chief you say? Hah! He has like ten lines total combined in Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 2, most of which are smart ass comments you'd expect from Rambo or the Terminator. His character is about as interesting as a pile of rocks, so although I would like to see a deeper Chief, I appreciate Bungie introducing a character with a story, substance, and a reason to fight for them. The story of the Arbiter and the Covenant Civil War is genius, but I think you already realize that (as hinted at in your post). Your problem, I believe, is that it removes Elites from being mortal enemies of humanity. This is just simply not true. There are a wide variety of Elites who could pose threats in Halo 3: the Elites who were part of the original invasion force, any Elites who chose to not fight in the civil war, and possibly the Arbiter and his rebels (Frank says that in Halo 3 we finish every fight started in Halo: Combat Evolved...the biggest fight was the one started when "the Demon" blew up Installation 04 on the Supreme Commander's watch - there's plenty of reasons to write them -the Arbiter and his Elites- in as enemies here). We already know we fight Grunts and if you're vaguely familiar with the Unggoy, you must know that they always ally with Elites. So, in short, Halo 2's story was head-and-shoulders above Halo: Combat Evolved's...had the ending been finished, I'm certain there would have been more satisfaction from players who felt disenchanted by the story.
  • Dual, I agree that from a technical standpoint, the weapons are not realistically futuristic (there will be energy-based weapons being used by humanity before the end of the 21st century), they're included because they are decidedly "human." They feel human when you fire them and they act as a good counter against the very "alien" weapons the Covenant use.
  • The real things I hate about in Halo 2: No opposing team mute option, clunky multiplayer interface, network code/host advantage issues, no permanent ban (for cheating) on Xbox - not just GamerTag, linear campaign, no online cooperative play, no ability to completely customize your controls or multiplayer elements (weapons and vehicles), viewable rank, lack of Earth-based warfare in campaign, excessive auto-aim/hit boxes/aim assist, the Flood (I know they're not going anywhere, but something needs to be done about them - they're annoying, over-powered and over-used), and most of all...the complainers. (note that almost all of them have little or nothing to do with changes made going from Halo: Combat Evolved into Halo 2)
Let me say this, just to go on record.

For those who truly hate Halo 2 (although some of you claim to, the number here is smaller than you guys let on), you will not like Halo 3. Is it because Halo 3 is going to be more like Halo 2? Not really, although it could.

I believe it’s because you’re still hung up on Halo: Combat Evolved. Nothing will compare or topple it in the long run, for you. Just like Star Wars fans having trouble including the prequels as “Star Wars” because of the storytelling differences, the same can be said about the people who are so staunchly upset about Halo 2. It’s not an issue of quality, as much as it is an issue about Erotic Crystallization Inertia. You want things to stay the same…and you refuse to accept change as being good. Halo 3 won’t fix your problems, and most of you (purists) are already worried/aware that this is true.

#19 Jironimo

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:57 PM

Amen. Name a better console shooter besides HCE? Name some better PC shooters and see what company both the Halo games are in?

#20 DualX

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 08:16 PM

Battlefield 2 for PC. Of course it has it's problems just like any other game, but the gameplay's fun factor out-weighs it dramatically. If it weren't for those problems, it could easily be the best FPS yet, at least until Halo 3 comes out.


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