91 replies to this topic

[Stormtrooper30]

I don't think that ethernet cable is up to par with my current social status. I don't know if Cold storage will work with the Halo weapons. If I was fighting in an intense corridor fight and someone threw down a bubble shield it would ruin the experience for me...

[Syracuse022]

This is easily the worst map I've yet to play, taking the position that had formerly been held by Blackout. I'm certain it will retain this status until a newly remade map is announced, in which case, I will decry that as an epic fail before I so much as see a full resolution screenshot.

I'm so tired of remakes.

I don't know how I can put it more simply than that, but I'll walk you through it...

When I first saw Blackout in motion on Halo 3, I noticed potential problems. You called me out on "not having played it." Here's the thing: I've played enough Halo to know what I'm going to enjoy and what I'm not in each game's respective engine. As soon as I played Blackout, all of my concerns turned out to be justified - Blackout is in the lower third of Halo 3 maps, right there with Epitaph and Snowbound, maps with good enough conceptual designs, but questionable execution.

I'm saying that Chill Out is going to end up being decent (just like the maps I just listed), but one of those maps that our group rarely bothers to play - it just doesn't look that fun to me.

urk, before you hit the "Troll" button, did you even watch the video I posted? Chill Out turned into a campfest in Halo 1, even though camping was tempered by the systematic power-up timers, since teams needed to make plays for the OS (each minute), Camo (every 2 minutes), and Rockets (also every 2 minutes). This map is starting out without systematic power-up timers (we can put the rockets on a drop timer, but the power-ups? No dice). It also features mid-range gameplay mechanics that lead to more camping than Halo 1 ever could - BRs take a slow 4 shots instead of the pistol's quick 3, which leads to more firefights that end with a player running for (and reaching) cover to let his shields recharge. Have you ever watched how good teams win Halo 2 games on maps like Gemini (look up the traveshamockery that was MLG Philadelphia 2005)? That's how good teams are going to win on Chill Out. And that's not fun to me. Sorry.

[urk]

Eh, I'm not saying that you can't have your opinion. One man's Lockout is another man's Chiron. The community is so vast that there's just no pleasing everyone. While you may be tired of remakes, there's a massive portion of players that want nothing but. Bungie's doing a pretty good job of mixing up remakes, reimaginings, and new offerings. It's like they're in this weird space where if they are faithful to every detail, they're called out for being lazy. If they change a ramp to stairs, then they're chastised for ruining the entire map. They're not all winners. Never have been. Halo had it's crop of stinkers. Halo 2 as well. But for the most part, it comes down to play style and personal preference. So in that respect, you've got every right to suspect it won't mate well with your idea of an idea arena. Yet, you'll have quite a few that will. I'm sure every developer wishes they had this problem.

[Major Hayes]

Sweet. I've been hoping for a Chill Out remake. Chill Out was one of my favorite maps in Halo 1 when people weren't playing Blood Gulch. It was a tight, confined space which was condusive to awesome action. I agree that it has it's flaws (especially the textures; it looked really bad in Halo 1), but I hope it'll be a great addition to Halo 3. P.S. In my opinion, Blackout = Lockout. It's the same damn map and don't say it isn't. There's never been a map remake so incredibly close to the original as Blackout.

[Anpheus]

Sweet. I've been hoping for a Chill Out remake. Chill Out was one of my favorite maps in Halo 1 when people weren't playing Blood Gulch. It was a tight, confined space which was condusive to awesome action. I agree that it has it's flaws (especially the textures; it looked really bad in Halo 1), but I hope it'll be a great addition to Halo 3.

P.S. In my opinion, Blackout = Lockout. It's the same damn map and don't say it isn't. There's never been a map remake so incredibly close to the original as Blackout.

Only a loser such as yourself with inferior ethernet cables and substandard speaker wire and probably a defunct, dare I say worthless uncalibrated display would see that. Sharpen your TV's image a bit, can't you see the differences? THEY ARE THERE MAN.

Just the other day, I was in forge and it said blackout, then all of a sudden everything became black and white. I don't remember that in Lockout. Nuh uh. Nor do I remember everything being so blurry. It was really strange, but obviously a bug in Bungie's design, all the more reason to be doubtful that this upcoming Chill Out remake will be faithful to the original. After all, if they can't even release a map pack without strange color glitches like Blackout has, or with all the other awful changes, what can I expect from more maps with more complicated and unique geometry? The pixels won't line up, the jumps I know and love will all change, it'll be worthless. Might as well not buy it. Of course I have to, you know, to see what it looks like, but I'll regret it every single day afterward. I swear after I buy the next map pack, never again Bungie! I won't let them fool me again!

[NJ Shlice]

Chill Out turned into a campfest in Halo 1, even though camping was tempered by the systematic power-up timers, since teams needed to make plays for the OS (each minute), Camo (every 2 minutes), and Rockets (also every 2 minutes). This map is starting out without systematic power-up timers (we can put the rockets on a drop timer, but the power-ups? No dice). It also features mid-range gameplay mechanics that lead to more camping than Halo 1 ever could - BRs take a slow 4 shots instead of the pistol's quick 3, which leads to more firefights that end with a player running for (and reaching) cover to let his shields recharge. Have you ever watched how good teams win Halo 2 games on maps like Gemini (look up the traveshamockery that was MLG Philadelphia 2005)? That's how good teams are going to win on Chill Out. And that's not fun to me. Sorry.

So should we all just play maps that are large open arenas with no cover?

Chastising a map because it turns into a Campfest is silly. Every map can turn into a campfest if you wanted it to. The Pit is no less intricate than Chill Out. A well placed grenade and a BR to the face, A Rocket, A Snipe to the face, Brute shot, Dual-wields, etc. are all quick kills. Chill out does have some back hallways where people will dip out of to avoid a fight, but so does Guardian. And if you play careful enough on any map you can always put yourself in a position to be able to dip out of a BR battle if you know you are a shot or two behind your opponent.

The MLGers do it all the time. There's no shame in running away if you know you aren't gonna win that fight. Pick your fights.

[vociferous]

Falkor, I don't think Cuse wants large open arenas necessarily, although, I believe you'll be hard-pressed to find a legitimate one in Halo 3. No, I don't think Isolation or The Pit fall with this practice. Not by the standards established by the likes of Hang 'em High, Derelict, Wizard/Warlock, Midship and Sanctuary. I'm crossing my fingers with Purple Reign - it looks and sounds awesomely promising. Normally, I'd agree with Cuse about this with regards to Chill Out, specifically because of the closed and linear nature the map. Most rooms have only one or two exits, causing it to hamper choice and generate isolated camping spots. The only real difference appears to be size by a narrow margin and the sandbox of Halo 3, which is much more comprehensive and in my opinion balanced. That being said, I actually don't agree with Cuse with regard to this map's placement in Halo 3 - I don't think it'll rise to the level of bane and frustration that was a griefer's/camper's Chill Out. Having played Halo 3 considerably now, I am completely convinced that the level of skill for the average player is nowhere near the level of the decent players in Halo: Combat Evolved or even Halo 2 for that matter. Most of these guys probably need assistance getting their underwear on, no less understanding the concept of camping outside of the trips their father took them. I'm sure there will be people who exploit the map's problematic nature, but I think we'll run into very few of them comparatively. You best believe I will be a camping whore though.

[Cocopjojo]

'Cuse, I find it interesting that you aren't happy about this map, since, as I pointed out earlier, the head-honcho types at mlgpro.com voted this as their number one most wanted remake - and I know that you have a lot of respect for what they do over there (I do, too).

[Self Induced]

Most of these guys probably need assistance getting their underwear on, no less understanding the concept of camping outside of the trips their father took them.

No, their deadbeat dads drink beer in front of the TV all day and beat their fat wives.

It looks like Cold Storage is built on a much larger scale than Chill Out, although layout looks like it wasn't changed much compared to Blackout (biggest change from what I could see was in camo room).

[Stormtrooper30]

P.S. In my opinion, Blackout = Lockout. It's the same damn map and don't say it isn't.

It isn't. Have you even played Lockout? There are many more firing lanes and jumps in Lockout than in Blackout.


Chillout looks very promising. I can't wait to play it. But the one I am most phyced for is Moon Base Alpha. I can't wait to see what Bungie is conjuring up in thier level designing place. I Purple Reign seems awesome too.

[Cocopjojo]

Luke made an interesting statement in response to a post on B.net:

Luke said "Smuggler" was the code name for Cold Storage. It will be included, along with Purple Reign and Moonbase Alpha, in the next map pack.

The first sentence is a fact.
The second one is an incorrect assumption ;b <3 u CG

Take from that what you will, but it appears to increase the validity of the theory that a map or maps may be made free on Bungie Day.

And if that ends up being true, will we get just two maps with the next Map Pack? Or is there a third ready for release?

[Merguson]

Luke made an interesting statement in response to a post on B.net:




Take from that what you will, but it appears to increase the validity of the theory that a map or maps may be made free on Bungie Day.

And if that ends up being true, will we get just two maps with the next Map Pack? Or is there a third ready for release?

Different possibilities to that. It could mean Cold Storage could be a free map on Bungie Day. It could also mean many other things.

[Stormtrooper30]

It could mean any one of the three maps could be released on Bungie Day. It could also mean that an unannounced could be released on Bungie day, with the other three following at a later date.

[Self Induced]

It could also mean Satan's minions will pour forth from the depths of Hell into every major city in the world.

[Jironimo]

It could mean any one of the three maps could be released on Bungie Day. It could also mean that an unannounced could be released on Bungie day, with the other three following at a later date.

I was just thinking we might have a map pack with 4 maps.

[Stormtrooper30]

^^Oh, well that works too.^^ Dan made it sound like something comepletly awesome, so who knows. They may possibly launch something in matchmaking like a Forge varient or Community map playlist.

[mattacus]

They may possibly launch something in matchmaking like a Forge varient or Community map playlist.

I wanted to say that that would be in keeping with the recent bungie trend of leaving the epic at the door...but I'd rather think positively. Anything Bungie does on Bungie Day would be a gift for the fans, and we would be pretentious a-holes with an over-inflated sense of entitlement to bitch about it.

[Paavi]

Releasing a single map free seems a bit odd from matchamking design perspective. After all, they have to think players who fight without a hard drive. It's already a pain in the ass to have two map packs, one of which costs and the other one is free. Think about the madness if they were to introduce a second premium map pack. So maybe they are going to take the price tag off of Legendary Map Pack.

Edited by Paavi, 17 June 2008 - 02:48 AM.

[Disgruntled]

Well, I'm glad that unlike GAF, there are a lot of people here who agree that a Chill Out remake has a lot of potential to be a disaster. I'm specifically glad 'Cuse agrees with me... no one can complain quite like him. I thought the whole Lockout-Blackout complaining was a bunch of bull, but 'Cuse seems like he could verbally beat the shit out of me if I challenged him on it. :thumbsup: Hopefully, Cold Storage will be a remake in that it shares some of the more recognizable features of Chill Out, but doesn't actually have similar geometry and space. If it does, this map has a lot of potential to be either a campfest, or a complete mess. Chill Out was okay back in the day, but when I think of it with 8 players online in the Halo 3 engine, I shudder.

[mattacus]

Chill Out was okay back in the day, but when I think of it with 8 players online in the Halo 3 engine, I shudder.

Chill Out was best played with 2 v 2. Despite prevailing gameplay philosophies, 8 players isn't necessarily Halo's magic number. Chill Out made 2 v 2 or one on one matches superiorily badass. I would wager that it was the best H1 map if all you had was one box and four Duke controllers (because you were an early adopter and not some poser who picked up Halo because "everybody was playing it"). The player suggestions at the map selection screen were occasionally indicative of the amount of players that could have a fun, non-chaotic game on that map. If you insist on 8 players, you might as well make it a rockets start.