Jump to content


Photo

The Flood after H3?


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#21 Arachnidus

Arachnidus
  • Member
  • 27 posts

Posted 02 June 2008 - 03:25 PM

This is correct. After the events depicted in Halo 3, the Flood outbreak has been quelled and the Gravemind destroyed, but samples still exists with the Forerunner facilities.

The difference between this event and the last is that those who eradicated the Flood remain behind to deal with the remains of the infestation. The Flood are no longer a mystery, nor will the Forerunner technology (most importantly the array) be seen as spiritual artifacts to be claimed and used for some divine purpose.



True, but now that we have the knowledge of the Flood's storage(obviously, as there was a Gravemind on Halo Delta and an unknown populous on Halo Alpha) on the Installations, I think it's somewhat safe to assume that the Elites and possibly mankind(if we by some odd chance manage to receive Elite tech, possibly by a treaty, we could rebuild a fleet) would hunt down the installations near our part of the Galaxy, and glass them or otherwise destroy them.

#22 Niokiljolm'

Niokiljolm'
  • Member
  • 12 posts

Posted 02 June 2008 - 05:36 PM

After the destruction of the Gravemind, the flood most likely resumed to be primitive feral parasites, incapable of though unlike the evolved, gravemind era flood. Since the Elites are no longer following the prophets, they would have no problem glassing the remaining forerunner installations.

#23 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:06 PM

The flood very quickly form a gravemind as soon as they reach a critical mass at which point the random, sprawling infestation no longer becomes an advantage in combat.

#24 Rtas 'Vadum

Rtas 'Vadum

    Shadow of Intent

  • Member
  • 51 posts
  • Location:NC

Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:09 PM

I think it would be very unwise to get rid of the flood on the Forerunner installations. Why? Because they are the only known source of them, and what if, some day in the future, the flood returns from a different galaxy? They are, after all, an extra-galactic species. Humans and Elites would have no knowledge of the flood besides the limited details that Cortana could give us (assuming she survives to give the information). They should be studied (using Forerunner tech, obviously, and with a patrol ship in orbit ready to glass the entire surface if anything goes wrong), and if it comes down to it, the Halos can be activated to wipe the galaxy clean again in order to stave off the flood and allow for life to rise once more.

#25 Self Induced

Self Induced

    My drinking ethics are not for discussing.

  • Member
  • 739 posts

Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:15 PM

I think it would be very unwise to get rid of the flood on the Forerunner installations.

CDC - Scientists keep smallpox around in facilities to study it in case it comes back somewhere in the world, and if it is a new strain, they can create a vaccine quickly.

I think the Flood was described as something that originated outside our galaxy, right? If so, they could easily enter the galaxy again from the outside.
XBL: Self Induced
(no shit)

#26 Stormtrooper30

Stormtrooper30

    Keep on your toes or you might lose 'em.

  • Member
  • 461 posts
  • Location:Tennessee

Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:15 PM

I think it would be very unwise to get rid of the flood on the Forerunner installations. Why? Because they are the only known source of them, and what if, some day in the future, the flood returns from a different galaxy? They are, after all, an extra-galactic species. Humans and Elites would have no knowledge of the flood besides the limited details that Cortana could give us (assuming she survives to give the information). They should be studied (using Forerunner tech, obviously, and with a patrol ship in orbit ready to glass the entire surface if anything goes wrong), and if it comes down to it, the Halos can be activated to wipe the galaxy clean again in order to stave off the flood and allow for life to rise once more.


I'm not sure if you realized this, but this is exactly what happened in the Halo series. The Forerunners stored the Flood on the Halo installations to study them. The Flood got out and ate everybody.

Edited by Stormtrooper30, 02 June 2008 - 06:16 PM.


#27 Cocopjojo

Cocopjojo
  • Veteran
  • 1,860 posts

Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:44 PM

The Flood got out and ate everybody.

Best sentence ever describing what happened in the Halo series.

#28 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 02 June 2008 - 07:19 PM

I'm going to dispute the idea that the flood are extra-galactic. If they managed to make it to our galaxy (something that necessitates FTL on an unheard of scale within the Halo universe) why were they isolated on a single planet? Why wasn't the ship used to find another intersolar civilization and harness more FTL vessels? Why would they crash land on an otherwise remote system in the middle of nowhere, incapable of doing anything more? I think it's more likely the Flood is the pinnacle of the evolutionary cycle for a planet, a highly virulent, extremely unlikely and equally dangerous species that is, obviously, unlike any other described in the Halo world. I think the Flood evolved there and without contact with any more intelligent species, lay dormant, with probably the whole planet given over to the most efficient form of life available, it was likely plant-like. (This kind of explains the dark green/brown of the Flood, probably a chlorophyll-like pigment generating energy.) The Forerunner scooped up some of the world-wide infestation, the Flood began rapidly mutating, adapting, and taking control over the ship's systems. It just doesn't make sense to me that the Flood would be extra-galactic and yet they would be found, trapped on a world without the intervention of another species.

#29 mattacus

mattacus

    I get the sneaking sense that Gamble is NOT a douche.

  • Veteran
  • 3,518 posts
  • Xbox LIVE:Old Mattacus
  • Steam:oldmattacus

Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:01 AM

Your assumption that the Flood would need "FTL on an unheard of scale" neither proves your point, nor is it necessarily true. The reason the flood were "isolated on a single planet" and that they hadn't actively sought out "another intersolar civilization" upon arrival to our galaxy is that they had most likely been in hibernation upon entering our galaxy and upon landing on the planet where they were discovered. It's one of the strengths of their species to be able to lie in wait, hibernating until food arrives. They didn't need any special FTL travel or FTL at all, they could just point into the vastness of space and go to sleep, knowing that (barring collision) they might eventually reach another galaxy. Who knows, maybe the Flood left their own galaxy with millions of ships and, over untold millennia of hibernation and inadvertant collisions, the fleet was whittled down to the lone vessel which made it to the Milky Way. Without food, they helplessly waited for the grub to come along. And it would only take one ship. As we've seen, they're very resourceful.

#30 urk

urk

    Don't tase me, bro!

  • Member
  • 474 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:36 AM

I'm going to dispute the idea that the flood are extra-galactic.


No need to expound. Bungie classifies them as extra-galactic. The four stages of Flood infection are Feral, Co-ordinated, Interstellar, and Transgalactic.

As a point of fact, the Flood would have to be capable of travel between galaxies in order to survive. Otherwise, their insatiable hunger would be a suicidal urge.

#31 vtancredi

vtancredi
  • Member
  • 133 posts
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 03 June 2008 - 09:37 AM

Your assumption that the Flood would need "FTL on an unheard of scale" neither proves your point, nor is it necessarily true. The reason the flood were "isolated on a single planet" and that they hadn't actively sought out "another intersolar civilization" upon arrival to our galaxy is that they had most likely been in hibernation upon entering our galaxy and upon landing on the planet where they were discovered. It's one of the strengths of their species to be able to lie in wait, hibernating until food arrives. They didn't need any special FTL travel or FTL at all, they could just point into the vastness of space and go to sleep, knowing that (barring collision) they might eventually reach another galaxy. Who knows, maybe the Flood left their own galaxy with millions of ships and, over untold millennia of hibernation and inadvertant collisions, the fleet was whittled down to the lone vessel which made it to the Milky Way. Without food, they helplessly waited for the grub to come along. And it would only take one ship. As we've seen, they're very resourceful.


Exactly. Hibernation is how they survive on the Halos after all. This opens up yet another line of thought, which is that there are very likely other entire galaxies that were completely infested by the flood. What if the future humanity/covenant alliance settles the galaxy and moves on to the closest, only to find it run by a Flood superintelligence? And the next one after that... we could have Halo on a galactic scale instead of a stellar scale. Boggles the mind. That would actually be an idea for a future RTS, if they could handle the scope.

#32 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 10:24 AM

See, this just doesn't make sense to me, for the most virulent, rapidly expanding and evolving organism ever featured in any fiction I've read or played, their strategy completely changes when they go from interstellar to intergalactic. Why?

That just doesn't make sense, canon or not. They go from rapidly expanding, highly offensive and insanely difficult to manage pests to... All you have to do is glass one world they land on?

Edited by Anpheus, 03 June 2008 - 10:25 AM.


#33 urk

urk

    Don't tase me, bro!

  • Member
  • 474 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 11:30 AM

See, this just doesn't make sense to me, for the most virulent, rapidly expanding and evolving organism ever featured in any fiction I've read or played, their strategy completely changes when they go from interstellar to intergalactic. Why?

That just doesn't make sense, canon or not. They go from rapidly expanding, highly offensive and insanely difficult to manage pests to... All you have to do is glass one world they land on?


Certain variants of the Ebola virus can wipe African villages out with 99% efficacy rates, but fortunately for humanity, they haven't been capable as of yet of making long distance migrations. The reason is that the virus is too "hungry." It destroys its host much too quickly and once the "food" source is no longer available, the virus dies out. If it were capable of remaining dormant for long periods, it could stay, stow away on a flight to New York City where it would then find plenty of new treats to fuel its replication.

#34 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 12:48 PM

But as far as we can tell, the Flood when they consume all available food do just that. They lay dormant. So they're already more successful than Ebola in both highly populated, concentrated areas and sparsely populated, sprawling and even barren areas. They don't require other people to carry them, they can do it themselves. They certainly don't need strawmen to carry them to the next staging ground.

So why would something so successful and obviously capable of intelligent action once its reached the intergalactic stage suddenly revert? Why would it devolve into a lame (as in crippled) and dumb species? Why isn't the Gravemind of the other galaxy capable of sending more than just a single vessel to a single world?

#35 urk

urk

    Don't tase me, bro!

  • Member
  • 474 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 12:57 PM

But as far as we can tell, the Flood when they consume all available food do just that. They lay dormant.


Because there's nothing left to consume. You're not making the connection. You've got this scenario where the Flood have rent every piece of flesh from the galaxy. There's nothing left. And moving galaxy to galaxy isn't a quick jaunt. The Andromeda Galaxy, the Milky Way's nearest neighbor, is over two million light years away.

#36 vtancredi

vtancredi
  • Member
  • 133 posts
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:16 PM

But as far as we can tell, the Flood when they consume all available food do just that. They lay dormant. So they're already more successful than Ebola in both highly populated, concentrated areas and sparsely populated, sprawling and even barren areas. They don't require other people to carry them, they can do it themselves. They certainly don't need strawmen to carry them to the next staging ground.

So why would something so successful and obviously capable of intelligent action once its reached the intergalactic stage suddenly revert? Why would it devolve into a lame (as in crippled) and dumb species? Why isn't the Gravemind of the other galaxy capable of sending more than just a single vessel to a single world?


I think you're making a mistake in assuming that the Flood's only purpose is in consuming and then going dormant. Remember, we've never seen what happens once the Flood has finished consuming all opposition.

Remember it makes a compound mind that gets smarter the more flesh it consumes because of the biomass. It makes perfect sense that the first thing it does is eliminate opposition, then the next thing would be to build infrastructure, or bring all the biomass together for a new evolution, or whatever a hyperintelligence does with infinite numbers of neurons (Average number of neurons in the human brain = 100 billion).

Lets assume the Flood keeps doing the same thing, just on a bigger scale. Makes sense after all. So whatever galaxy(ies) the original spore came from is probably completely taken over by Flood with a Gravemind in charge. Gravemind takes most ships and fires them at the nearest galaxies. Actually, lets take it a little further. Think of the resources the Flood has. We've seen the flood transported in hunks of rock (Halo 3 Ark missions).
So it loads up trillions, quadrillions of meteors with Flood spores and sends them to the nearest galaxies. Even if the chances of running into life are infinitesimal, multiply your Drake equation by a trillion and all of a sudden it's looking pretty good.

Once the Flood takes over all the galaxies, who knows? However that would probably take the entire lifespan of the universe at that rate, i mean, there are supposed to be more galaxies in the universe than stars in our galaxy.

#37 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:30 PM

Except there's simply no way they could make that jaunt without FTL technology, and if they have FTL technology powering their intergalactic expansion, why is it one spore per galaxy? In this galaxy alone during the Forerunner war there were at times millions of civilian FTL ships controlled by the Flood. There are literally only a handful of nearby spiral galaxies, so how do we cope with these numerical problems? On one hand, we all agree the Flood wield vast resources and the compound mind is capable of using, if not even constructing its own FTL technology, though it clearly prefers numerical superiority over anything else. And on the other hand, we're saying some extragalactic flood invaded our galaxy with a lone world.


I can't reconcile that, it doesn't make sense. I think the Forerunner assumed it was extragalactic because it didn't make sense for something so unlike everything else to evolve here. But we learn every day in physics that our ego is stupid, that here is no place special, nor is there, nor is anywhere else. No matter how strange the biology of the Flood, it's no more likely to evolve there than here.


And I think because they established dominance over their home world so quickly and so feverishly, that no other sentience could evolve to compete with them, how could they, and the Flood lay dormant for hundreds of thousands of years surviving off of the natural energy sources available.

Edited by Anpheus, 03 June 2008 - 01:34 PM.


#38 urk

urk

    Don't tase me, bro!

  • Member
  • 474 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 04:00 PM

It's possible the Forerunner were wrong about the Flood origins. That said, I don't see any evidence that the Flood develop their own technologies. They appear to utilize existing technology in their inexorable push from one planet to the next. You simply don't see ancient Flood artifacts, architectural designs, or space faring vessels.

#39 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 04:27 PM

And as true as that is, the Gravemind's intelligence doesn't, at all, appear inadequate to do so.

Regardless, if the Flood are intergalactic somewhere in the Halo universe, it's frankly shocking to me that there would be an invasion force so easily wiped out. Any nearby supernova event or a more measured, conservative approach towards analyzing the Flood's homeworld in this galaxy would have resulted in no infestation. If it were as easy as not landing anything FTL capable on the planet, then there would be no Halo Array, no Conservation Measure.

It simply boggles my mind that this can be considered an invasion. They were trapped on that world from what information we have.

#40 Arachnidus

Arachnidus
  • Member
  • 27 posts

Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:56 PM

I think it would be very unwise to get rid of the flood on the Forerunner installations. Why? Because they are the only known source of them, and what if, some day in the future, the flood returns from a different galaxy? They are, after all, an extra-galactic species. Humans and Elites would have no knowledge of the flood besides the limited details that Cortana could give us (assuming she survives to give the information). They should be studied (using Forerunner tech, obviously, and with a patrol ship in orbit ready to glass the entire surface if anything goes wrong), and if it comes down to it, the Halos can be activated to wipe the galaxy clean again in order to stave off the flood and allow for life to rise once more.



Glassing wouldn't necessarily destroy the rings, they'd just vaporize every lifeform on it. If the shots were strategically placed, then the Flood specimens would be effectively destroyed, and we'd still have the Halos.


The most important thing Humanity and the other races would have to look for is Shield Worlds, unless the Ark were to be used again...but what if some of the Flood is still alive on the Ark, somehow surviving the debris impact/shockwave/explosion of Installation 04(II)? All it takes is one slip up by a Marine(Obviously, the UNSC would send forces into the Ark eventually to survey it) to get infected, become a carrier form, spread more infection forms, infect more people, and repeat the cycle. The problem with the Flood is not the combat forms, it's the Carrier forms- you kill one, and you create 5+ more.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq