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Campaign: Halo Trilogy Plot Progression

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#1 NJ Shlice

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:40 AM

First off, thank you guys for your responses to my last thread. Definitely some good insight. Now what are your thoughts on this... We know that Halo's plot was awesome, but with the books by Nylund/Dietz and the end of Halo 2, it seems there is a whole lot of plot left to be heard. Now, if you are Bungie and making a game called Halo:Combat Evolved. Why hold so much plot back? They could not have been that confident that there were going to be 2 more games to leave out so much tasty info for the 2nd and 3rd games. They must have included every plot detail of their "halo story" into Halo:Combat Evolved. Unless!, The started to make up more of the plot when deciding to make more games and books. And not only writing forward with the plot, they went backwards, in between, beforehand... They basically added a ridiculous more amount of plot information. So it just intrigues me how the writing process goes, because I have never written anything lol. But are they just making this stuff up as they go (i'm not complaining if they are) and if they are just going with the flow, do they sometimes dig themselves into a ditch they might not be able to get out of. (i.e. That whole scene by Nylund under Reach where they find that huge room with the crystal thingy and have this battle. Well what the hell was that room?? It sounded good at the time, but do they just write that stuff, then say "eh we'll just figure out later what that huge room is doing there.") ??? Also, I have been a firm believer of the whole Humans as Forerunners theory. But, going along with what i'm saying here. If that was the case they would have included that into Halo:Combat Evolved. Because that is a pretty huge detail to leave out. or once again were they over confident and knew there was going to be 3 games?? or maybe now the case is that we are Forerunners but that was something that was made up after they decided to add more to the plot with games and novels. We as forerunners was not part of the Original Halo Plot of Halo:Combat Evolved It seams to me that Bungie's Halo plot has had to have changed over the past years and Bungie was so sneaky, and clever, to make the Cortana Letters still relevant coming into this third and final installment. (thanks for reading) Your Thoughts....

Edited by NJ x Falk0r, 25 February 2007 - 08:44 AM.


#2 Burnination

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 11:39 PM

I think there are some references to humans being the forerunners in the first Halo game. 343 Guilty Spark calls the Master Chief a reclaimer, think about that one. Sombody reclaiming something once owned that thing before. Just before the Master Chief is about to activate the first Halo you hear 343 Guilty Spark say something like, "last time you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query my answer has not changed." I think he was not talking about John (he only just came in contact with the Chief), but about a human who once asked the monitor that question before the rings were activated the first time. Also, when Cortana stops the rings from being activated just after the index is inserted into the control panel, 343 Guilty Spark says, "why would you undo what you have already done?" This could mean "why would you go through all that trouble to get the index and then not finish the last step," or it could mean "why would you back out this time? You have already done this before!" Those are just some thoughts. Another thing I was thinking about the other day when I was playing through the Halo 2 campaign again with my friend is about something the gravemind says. Cortana asks, "what is that?" To which the gravemind responds, "I? I am a monument to all your sins." We know that the gravemind is an advanced flood creature. Does it know its species origin? If humans are forerunners, how is the gravemind a monument to their sins? What are their sins? Did they engineer the flood? Would it not exist as it does if they had not fired the rings?

#3 NJ Shlice

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 03:35 PM

I seem to think that the Forerunners (Humans I.M.O.) engineered the Flood, and what Gravemind says backs that theory up. In addition to what Gravemind says, the whole idea being that the Flood is meant to be "contained" not destroyed means that the Forerunners wanted to keep them around. And of course you would want to keep something around that you made in the first place. But.... he says I AM A TESTAMENT TO YOUR SINS. But how would he be one to the Arbiter's sins?? Or was he just talking to the Chief? But it seams at that point in time he was talking to both of them? Hmmm.....

#4 Burnination

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 05:33 PM

Could it be that their sins were not destroying the Flood? It's interesting that the Gravemind would use the word "sins." It has a religeous connotation. There are some nonreligeous characters there: the Chief, Cortana, and 2401 Penitent Tangent. There are also some very religeous characters there: the Arbiter, and the Prophet of Regret. Could it be that the Gravemind was also speaking to the Aribter? If so, then what are the sins of the Covenant?

#5 NJ Shlice

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 11:34 AM

Covenant's sins? Well their sins would have to involve the Flood, since the Gravemind is an advanced Flood creature, so maybe the Covenant have been keeping the flood alive this entire time, that is their sin?? If the Covenant kept going to the rings and attempting to "dig up" Forerunner technology, i'm sure plenty of Flood were getting hold and killing Covenant. Thus, keeping the Flood fed. ??? Tawk Amungst Yahselves....

#6 Nightshade

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 06:24 PM

My view on this is that the flood were created as a waepon of last resort. Sort of like having chemical weapons and using them on your own cities in order to stop the enemy, or atleast slow their progress. But the flood we're too powerfull, and their weapon backfired. As fo the "sin" connection to the flood. I would have to say, and this is asuming that the Gravemind is the overall leader of the flood, that he knew about the events in on the first destroied Halo. If it hadn't been for the flood, the Chief would not have blown the Pillar of Atumuns reactors, and demolished the Covenant Armada, and the religious Forerunner articafact that is Halo. Which if you remember from the Arbiters trail, he was charged with the failure to stop the destruction of the ring. That was his sin agains't the Covenant.

#7 NJ Shlice

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 06:19 AM

Good point about the "sins." But i think that the Gravemind must have been referring to something "Bigger." The pillar of autumn and installation 04 were important. But for him to be a "Monument" to their sins... I am thinking that he is referring to something on much more of a larger scale. Something CRITICAL to grand scheme of things. They would have to have been sins that affected the Universe and this entire Halo story.

#8 Poe Ghostal

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 04:37 AM

Unless!, The started to make up more of the plot when deciding to make more games and books. And not only writing forward with the plot, they went backwards, in between, beforehand... They basically added a ridiculous more amount of plot information.

Oh, I'm fairly sure that's the way it went down. Just like the Matrix movies--they made the first movie, and knew there was a possibility for sequel potential, but they definitely didn't have it all mapped out before they finished filming the first movie. Maybe not at all.

But that's almost always the way with franchises like this. Same thing happened to Star Wars--the first movie works fine as a stand-alone, but the other two need the other films to make any sense. And then there's the prequels...bleh. Let's not even go into that.

I suspect Bungie did indeed have the "story bible" all along, but that story has seen some pretty significant revisions over time. I think the story in Halo 2 works fairly well, given the fact that the first game didn't exactly leave an obvious set-up for it. But I'm really curious where they're going to go in Halo 3. There are countless unanswered questions.

#9 NJ Shlice

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 04:53 AM

Oh, I'm fairly sure that's the way it went down. Just like the Matrix movies--they made the first movie, and knew there was a possibility for sequel potential, but they definitely didn't have it all mapped out before they finished filming the first movie. Maybe not at all.

But that's almost always the way with franchises like this. Same thing happened to Star Wars--the first movie works fine as a stand-alone, but the other two need the other films to make any sense. And then there's the prequels...bleh. Let's not even go into that.

I suspect Bungie did indeed have the "story bible" all along, but that story has seen some pretty significant revisions over time. I think the story in Halo 2 works fairly well, given the fact that the first game didn't exactly leave an obvious set-up for it. But I'm really curious where they're going to go in Halo 3. There are countless unanswered questions.



Yes!! someone who agrees with me.

I was pretty satisfied with the first Matrix ending. They definitely over-complicated the 2nd and 3rd ones. Nebecunezzars, Anomolies, Mendolevian's. Too many religious implications that complicate things.

I dont even like the idea in Halo that THE ARK saves whoever is on/in it from the end of the world.

#10 mattacus

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 06:41 AM

I dont even like the idea in Halo that THE ARK saves whoever is on/in it from the end of the world.


Who is your homeboy? How could you not dig the significance of an Ark protecting life from the Flood?

#11 NJ Shlice

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:38 AM

Who is your homeboy? How could you not dig the significance of an Ark protecting life from the Flood?


Because once you introduce ONE Biblical reference, you have to compare more and more things from the plot to the Bible. Now you are reading into every religious implication. I wish it was all just seperate.


And then people start taking it waaaaaayyyy to seriously and it gets stupid.

#12 mattacus

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:21 AM

Are you for real? One of the main themes of the story seems to be that there is a connection between humanity's past and the events of the current future, tied in with the idea that the Judeo-Christian tradition is just mythology which is just a mucked up version of what really happened in the past. Bungie Halo Planning Meeting Number One: Dude #1: "We have this here bible that tells a funny story about how the earth was destroyed in a Flood and all life was saved by climbing in this Ark. But wouldn't it kick ass if it wasn't just all life on earth that was saved, but all life in the galaxy. And it would be even cooler if the flood wasn't water but was an unstoppable alien parasite.!" Everyone Else at the Meeting: "Kick-ass!" That's how this whole story started. You don't go using words like "Halo," "Covenant," and "the Flood" without signalling to your english-speaking audience that you are engaging the judeo-christian vocabulary. Once you do that, any other uses of that vocabulary are fair game and can reasonably be assumed to be intentional. Saying that you "wish it was all just seperate" [sic] is like saying "I wish the story had no narrative structure or underlying thematic elements." If that's the kind of game we want, we might as well be playing Geometry Wars. /which isn't a bad idea.

#13 NJ Shlice

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:11 AM

Are you for real? One of the main themes of the story seems to be that there is a connection between humanity's past and the events of the current future, tied in with the idea that the Judeo-Christian tradition is just mythology which is just a mucked up version of what really happened in the past.

Bungie Halo Planning Meeting Number One:

Dude #1: "We have this here bible that tells a funny story about how the earth was destroyed in a Flood and all life was saved by climbing in this Ark. But wouldn't it kick ass if it wasn't just all life on earth that was saved, but all life in the galaxy. And it would be even cooler if the flood wasn't water but was an unstoppable alien parasite.!"

Everyone Else at the Meeting: "Kick-ass!"

That's how this whole story started. You don't go using words like "Halo," "Covenant," and "the Flood" without signalling to your english-speaking audience that you are engaging the judeo-christian vocabulary. Once you do that, any other uses of that vocabulary are fair game and can reasonably be assumed to be intentional.

Saying that you "wish it was all just seperate" [sic] is like saying "I wish the story had no narrative structure or underlying thematic elements." If that's the kind of game we want, we might as well be playing Geometry Wars.

/which isn't a bad idea.


I'm sorry Mattacus but I can't say I side with you on this one.

I do not believe that Bungie's (or whoever originated the story) had any intent of taking Christianity's story and just adding more interesting elements to it. And even if they did, than I do not think it was there idea to communicate that to us by using such words as Covenant and Flood.

I, for one, love the plot of this story and i enjoy it while not making any connection what-so-ever between it and Judeo-Christianity.

I was simply saying in the previous post that it erks people's brain (mine also) when they do use christian words/names/phrases for the sake of curiosity. However when you sit down and think about it, and try to identify its parrallels it is all for fun and I dont think Bungie is on a mission to send people to their bible's try attempt to find the correlation between Christianity and Halo.


There seams to be a connection, in Halo, of a Superhuman race in the past that constructed super human things that could destroy the galaxy, and also introduces two other superhuman lifeforms/species/aliens. Halo's parrallels to Christianity are not as implied as you are making them seem to be.


Why the use of words Covenant, Flood, Ark???

I don't know. maybe give the readers/players something they can relate to. But to go out and say that they modified Judeo-Christian history and they are somehow trying to communicate that is just not sitting well with me.

#14 Syracuse022

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:23 AM

I'm on Mattacus' team again.

#15 Blamo

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:08 AM

Nightshade i love you're theory. The Flood are a weapon of massive destruction. The Halo rings are ment to deploy the Flood. But that doesn't explain the role of the Reclaimers. Are they the one's that take back the territory that is controlled ny the Flood. I also don't understand what the Covenant's facination with Forunner tech. I personally think that the prophets knew of the Flood all along and used The Forunner tech as a scapegoat to unleash massive damage onto the Universe. I'm not sure wht you guys think but I like this Thread. I also don't see why you guys think the ark is a shelter from the Flood. What about Onyx? and the other spartans? Maybe the ark is a gateway to that "heaven". maybe when the Ark opens up, the other spartans pop out, or possibly a gajillion Flood. I'm not sure.

#16 mattacus

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:46 AM

Why the use of words Covenant, Flood, Ark???

I don't know. maybe give the readers/players something they can relate to. But to go out and say that they modified Judeo-Christian history and they are somehow trying to communicate that is just not sitting well with me.


You don't know, but a lot of us do. Trust us when we tell you that these guys (bungie) are (can be) terrific story-tellers. They use a lot of mythology in their work, and it is richer for it.

Something that doesn't sit well with me is why one would discount what bungie is clearly trying to achieve, the story that they are clearly trying to tell, with no other supportive reasoning than it's "just not sitting well."

What's not sitting well? That they are using your religion in a secular context? They are using religious mythos for financial gain? If that's the case, then I'm sorry. A lot of life is not going to sit well with you.

However, if there is another articulable reason for denying clear, defensible fact, I would love to read it.

Edited by mattacus, 25 April 2007 - 11:47 AM.


#17 Va1or

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:27 PM

I wrote an article on just some of the religious symbolism in Halo here: http://h3da.ascendan...om/?page_id=172

#18 mattacus

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:43 PM

Excellent write-up. It should be required reading before one can comment on this thread.

#19 Va1or

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:47 PM

Thanks :)

#20 NJ Shlice

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 03:23 PM

You don't know, but a lot of us do. Trust us when we tell you that these guys (bungie) are (can be) terrific story-tellers. They use a lot of mythology in their work, and it is richer for it.

Something that doesn't sit well with me is why one would discount what bungie is clearly trying to achieve, the story that they are clearly trying to tell, with no other supportive reasoning than it's "just not sitting well."

What's not sitting well? That they are using your religion in a secular context? They are using religious mythos for financial gain? If that's the case, then I'm sorry. A lot of life is not going to sit well with you.

However, if there is another articulable reason for denying clear, defensible fact, I would love to read it.


I hate where this thread has gone but here we go anyways.

If Bungie took Christian history and was influenced by it and just modified it to fit a videogame or a secular/alien/sci-fi twist than I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Now either of these things happened:
They took a very little bit of Christian story and just made up the rest?
--Possibly, there is just not enough that is similair, not enough where you would be putting religious references (covenant/flood/arm) to communicate that to us. If they wanted to communicate that this story is based on Judeo-Christianity than they would have done a better job of making the story more akin to Judeo-Christianity.

They were heavily influenced by the Christian story and this is supposed to be a slight modification of it with keeping Christianity's main story intact but just adding aliens, sci-fi, etc?
-- Well then they did a crappy job of it


Back to my original post:

Using Biblical names just plays tricky with the old head and makes you think, and it gets confusing because you dont know why they are using those names. But it think They could have quite possibly just used the Biblical story of the flood and the Ark from the Bible but that is it. I am not arguing that parrallel. But outside that I do not think that Bungie is trying to communite to us, though using words like Covenant, Flood, Ark, that this story was heavily based on Judeo-Christianity.



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