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Forerunner Questions


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#1 vox

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 07:23 AM

After reading through the "Terminal" and "She Died in Eden" articles, I find myself reanalyzing the Halo Universe. So I went back and glanced through some of your archives and did some research of my own. Here are some questions I couldn't quite get around:

Pertaining to the Precursors: In Halo 2, as you're merrily cutting your way through wave after wave of Covenant ground forces, you make your way into a temple-like structure. If you've been astute, you'd have already notcied that many of the buildings scattered across this instilation have a more "organic" feel. They appear to be made of stone and not the traditional alloy that the Forerunner's employed when building their structures. So it comes to pass that in this temple Cortana says, "They built these structures around existing ones" and then mentions that she's unsure why but she's looking into it. Why is this? Are these buildings a peice of Forerunner history, transplanted to preserve the memory of their roots? Or, more intruiging, could some of the rings have been repurposed? Perhaps they weren't always weapons but bonified habitats, or perhaps the original design was never the Forerunners. Saying that even a portion of the structures present on the ring weren't original leads me to wonder if perhaps the original ring was of Precursor origin.

On the subject of translating the Terminals: Language is very complex medium. and many nuances and cultural references could be missed during the translation. This is more of a quirky possibility then an actual fact as it relates to the Halo games. I doubt that the writers went to the trouble to missinterpret some on the text; that would imply a level of attention to detail that would be lost to all but hardcore lingustics...and, well, people like us. It could also be explained away as impossible since a super-advanced AI was translating to someone who's destiny implied an inate understanding of things Forerunner.

Regarding the Human vs Forerunner tangent: It is possible that the Forerunners selected Humanity to follow it's footprints because of genetic traits we possessed. This is a statement of fact, but let me expound: if you compare Humanity to the other known sentients presented, what are the similarities? Bi-pedal, four appendages, "thumbs", super-luminal travel, religion, government, tools, the basics. Now, what is it that Humanity has encoded into it's genes that the other races (excluding, for now, the Forerunners) do not. Intuition and ingenuity. At least eighty percent of all known Covenant technology is reverse engineered from Forerunner artifacts, while nearly all of Humanity's technology is of human design. It could be because of this that the Forerunners selected Humanity as its Chosen, trusting that our nature would lead us to the answers that they could not find and the others would be blind to. And, in the event that the Flood ever escaped, they trusted that Humanity would do what needed to be done and succeed where they had failed because Humans possessed the one thing the Forerunners do not: tenacity.

If this has been discussed in other forums then I apologize for beating the dead horse, but I'd be interested in hearing feedback none-the-less.

#2 A. Nonymous

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 06:09 PM

Pertaining to the Precursors: In Halo 2, as you're merrily cutting your way through wave after wave of Covenant ground forces, you make your way into a temple-like structure. If you've been astute, you'd have already notcied that many of the buildings scattered across this instilation have a more "organic" feel. They appear to be made of stone and not the traditional alloy that the Forerunner's employed when building their structures. So it comes to pass that in this temple Cortana says, "They built these structures around existing ones" and then mentions that she's unsure why but she's looking into it. Why is this? Are these buildings a peice of Forerunner history, transplanted to preserve the memory of their roots? Or, more intruiging, could some of the rings have been repurposed? Perhaps they weren't always weapons but bonified habitats, or perhaps the original design was never the Forerunners. Saying that even a portion of the structures present on the ring weren't original leads me to wonder if perhaps the original ring was of Precursor origin.


I am under the impression that the
Spoiler


Maybe the ring was inhabited (by what race, I do not know) and built on top of existing structures, as a sort of tribute to the forerunners. As to the whereabouts of this species, I would presume that it was consumed by the flood ages ago--
Spoiler


#3 vox

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 07:05 AM

I am under the impression that the

Spoiler


Maybe the ring was inhabited (by what race, I do not know) and built on top of existing structures, as a sort of tribute to the forerunners. As to the whereabouts of this species, I would presume that it was consumed by the flood ages ago--
Spoiler


True, the Forerunners
Spoiler
. This doesn't eliminate the possibility that at least one of the rings weren't of Forerunner construction. Perhaps the
Spoiler
was created after the Forerunners were able to reverse engineer the original weapon?

But you raise a good point. And to be honest, it never crossed my mind that another speices might has settled on it. It would certainly help to explain
Spoiler
. The only snag I can see is that had it been a different, uncataloged species, I believe that Cortana would have made a more significant statement. ...Although, now that I think about it, perhaps she wouldn't. The patterns were geometrical enough, perhaps whoever was on the ring (assuming someone was) emulated their architeture.

Spoiler


#4 mattacus

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 07:40 AM

Spoiler


Perhaps the Flood, in the absence of sustenance, enter some sort of sporidic hibernation and reactivate when conditions are right for procreation/infection.

#5 vociferous

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:29 AM

No need for spoiler tags, gentlemen. There shouldn't be really anything to spoil at this point.

True, the Forerunners did build the Ark to server, partly, as a foundry for the Halo rings. This doesn't eliminate the possibility that at least one of the rings weren't of Forerunner construction. Perhaps the foundry was created after the Forerunners were able to reverse engineer the original weapon?

That's an interesting theory, but I don't believe it is accurate. The Forerunners moved those structures to Delta Halo from another world. The original Bungie.net article is not available since the site update, but you can find the description of Warlock (part of the manageries of ancient, temple-like structures on Installation 05) here:

Set in the rain-soaked ruins of an ancient Forerunner structure, nobody knows if Warlock is a temple, a castle or even a dwelling. What we do know is that the architecture predates the Halo itself, and that it must have been moved here, brick by brick, with obvious reverence by the Forerunners themselves.

They could still be structures built by the Precursors or notably in honor of the Precursors, but they were not made on the installation itself.

But why did the Gravemind hold back until the Library?

Could you elaborate? I'm not following you on this one.

The Gravemind did not exist in Halo: Combat Evolved because the Flood were still in a feral state. They had yet to become organized or achieve the critical mass they needed to facilitate a compound intelligence. In Halo 2, Installation 05's Gravemind no doubt lacked the opportunity to leave the ring until the Covenant and humanity arrived. Then it took the necessary steps to both stop the installation from firing and latch onto High Charity. We don't know how long the Gravemind existed before they arrived or why the Flood were already rampant in certain quarantined areas of the installation, but we do know that the Gravemind lacked opportunity and food until we marched onto the ring's doorstep.

#6 vox

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:23 AM

The Gravemind did not exist in Halo: Combat Evolved because the Flood were still in a feral state. They had yet to become organized or achieve the critical mass they needed to facilitate a compound intelligence. In Halo 2, Installation 05's Gravemind no doubt lacked the opportunity to leave the ring until the Covenant and humanity arrived. Then it took the necessary steps to both stop the installation from firing and latch onto High Charity. We don't know how long the Gravemind existed before they arrived or why the Flood were already rampant in certain quarantined areas of the installation, but we do know that the Gravemind lacked opportunity and food until we marched onto the ring's doorstep.


That is correct. When I asked why the Gravemind held back until the Library, I was wondering why, in Halo 2, the Gravemind hadn't jumped at the opportunity to seize Regret's ship when it first hovered over the Temple. You don't encounter the Flood until after the Arbiter has landed and moved towards the Index. It would seem that with so many available resources available to it from the outset of both the Human - Covenant invasion it would have seized the first opportunity it had to aquire a ship and transport itself off the ring.

Looking back at parts of its dialouge, the Gravemind indicates that it was biding its time. That seems like the likely answer, but how would it know what to wait for?

#7 Nightshade

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 11:27 AM

We don't know how long the Gravemind existed before they arrived

Is it not possible that the infestation was still part of the one from Halo: Combat Evolved? I mean after all when the Arbiter and Half-Jaw return to the wreckage of the first Halo to kill the Heretic leader, they are assaulted by quite a good number of flood.

Not to mention 343 Guilty Spark does talk about the the infection spores going airborne to the Master Chief. So if let?s say an Elite survivor of the first Halo ring returns to his ship, and then is relocated to Delta Halo, he could have carried spores on his body, unable to infect until his shield covering had dropped. Much like in Halo 3 how they can not be infected until so.

Or even if the Flood spores worked like a modern virus. You can get enough a certain viruses on your person and it would not be lethal because it has to take up a certain part per billionth of the air. But if you get enough people/aliens in a small area, with the same amount of un-lethal dosages. That part per billion will rise making it very

#8 vociferous

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:06 PM

Is it not possible that the infestation was still part of the one from Halo: Combat Evolved? I mean after all when the Arbiter and Half-Jaw return to the wreckage of the first Halo to kill the Heretic leader, they are assaulted by quite a good number of flood.

Not to mention 343 Guilty Spark does talk about the the infection spores going airborne to the Master Chief. So if let?s say an Elite survivor of the first Halo ring returns to his ship, and then is relocated to Delta Halo, he could have carried spores on his body, unable to infect until his shield covering had dropped. Much like in Halo 3 how they can not be infected until so.

Or even if the Flood spores worked like a modern virus. You can get enough a certain viruses on your person and it would not be lethal because it has to take up a certain part per billionth of the air. But if you get enough people/aliens in a small area, with the same amount of un-lethal dosages. That part per billion will rise making it very

That would be a possibility, but it would be a radical extension of the existing fiction. If Bungie wanted to map together the two Halo rings in this way, they could, but I find it unlikely.

The contamination on the gas mine above Threshold was depicted as a localized infection which was cauterized by the facility as it was pulled toward the center of the gas giant. Could a contaminated Elite have survived? Possibly. Would it be more reasonable to assume that this Elite was the source of Delta Halo's contamination than simply the Gravemind and the Flood living dormantly until humanity and the Covenant arrived? Who knows.

One thing I've always found that was interesting is that the Covenant apparently knew where Delta Halo was. They went there directly after abandoning their initial attempt to access the Ark. When the ODST made landfall, a Grunt is seen with a fire as though it had been there for a while. I think the fiction regarding how long the Covenant have known about Delta Halo, how they found out and how long they were there before humanity could answer a lot of these questions.

If the Covenant had been on there for weeks or months before Regret's fleet were chased their by the UNSC, then it would be very clear as to the origin of the Gravemind and the Floods outbreak. The blame would fall squarely on Covenant shoulders, once again.

#9 vox

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 07:17 AM

One thing I've always found that was interesting is that the Covenant apparently knew where Delta Halo was. They went there directly after abandoning their initial attempt to access the Ark. When the ODST made landfall, a Grunt is seen with a fire as though it had been there for a while. I think the fiction regarding how long the Covenant have known about Delta Halo, how they found out and how long they were there before humanity could answer a lot of these questions.

If the Covenant had been on there for weeks or months before Regret's fleet were chased their by the UNSC, then it would be very clear as to the origin of the Gravemind and the Floods outbreak. The blame would fall squarely on Covenant shoulders, once again.



The way I understood it was that Regret didn't know the exact location of the Ark before he arrived at Earth, and that what he was doing before he jumped to Delta Halo was recovering artifacts. The most probable explination for his hasty retreat was that after recovering the artifact and using the same method to dechyper the information contained within that they used in "Fall of Reach", Regret fealt threatened by the Humans encroachment and felt that if he could get to Delta Halo first that he might be able to redeem himself in Truth's eyes. After both parties arrived at Halo I can assume that Regret beamed all pertanent information to High Charity before landing on the ring. An untold amount of time lapsed between Regret's landing and Chief's, but we can assume Regret got there a great deal faster since his ship is better in every respect to Captain Keyes'. So it's plausable that they had a fair amount of time to set up before Chief got there, but not enough to fully entrench.

If they had found the ring before Regret attacked Earth then I would assume a large fleet would be attached to it due to it's significance. Not to mention that the prophets would have almost certainly take up residence on their most holy artifact. ...Though now that I think about it, in the level where Arbiter is searching for the Index does anyone else feel that, when inside the burning hulks (right after you destroy two wraiths, a scorpian, and several sentinels) that you're running through the reactor core of a Human vessel?

As to the Flood being left over from Delta Halo, I also agree that it is unlikely. Though the Elites aren't human I doubt they sleep in their armor with their shields on. Not to mention it's unlikely that anything would stick to the shield as, if I recall, it's very much like a reactive film. I mean if particles stuck to it imagine how poor your visibility would become after you ran through a cloud of smoke. The only likely theory for transmition would be if a few infection forms managed to stow away on a dropship and then go dormant for awhile. That still wouldn't explain the Gravemind, however. Perhaps a look at the deleted levels from Halo 2 could shed some light on the subject.

#10 A. Nonymous

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 02:02 PM

If they had found the ring before Regret attacked Earth then I would assume a large fleet would be attached to it due to it's significance. Not to mention that the prophets would have almost certainly take up residence on their most holy artifact. ...Though now that I think about it, in the level where Arbiter is searching for the Index does anyone else feel that, when inside the burning hulks (right after you destroy two wraiths, a scorpian, and several sentinels) that you're running through the reactor core of a Human vessel?


If I recall correctly, that is In Amber Clad. I *think* that at some certain point in the campaign, if you look to the sky, you can see IAC crashing down (on the ring, not High Charity). I could be wrong...I loaned out my 360 three months ago, so I can't just go look for it (might be seen on H3 LE disc, too...if I can make the time, I'll look for it).

#11 vox

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 07:29 AM

If I recall correctly, that is In Amber Clad. I *think* that at some certain point in the campaign, if you look to the sky, you can see IAC crashing down (on the ring, not High Charity). I could be wrong...I loaned out my 360 three months ago, so I can't just go look for it (might be seen on H3 LE disc, too...if I can make the time, I'll look for it).



It crashes on High Charity, that's how the flood get there.

#12 A. Nonymous

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 10:38 AM

I knew that, but I thought it crashed on Delta Halo before the Flood Crashed it into High Charity. Turns out that the wreckage is a Sentinel Factory; you can see it being shot down around the 100,000 years war chapter.

#13 Nightshade

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 11:23 AM

I knew that, but I thought it crashed on Delta Halo before the Flood Crashed it into High Charity. Turns out that the wreckage is a Sentinel Factory; you can see it being shot down around the 100,000 years war chapter.

Usually something like that only crashes once.


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