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Will Halo 3 be too complex?

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#21 NJ Shlice

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 12:09 PM

I'm really looking forward to the discussion to come when the beta is actually released. Now that I think about it, 3 weeks is so flippin' short. I mean, we are gonna have our jaws on the floor for a good week. Which gives us a solid two weeks to play till our eyeballs hurt. I just hope its enough time to get ALL of the feedback that is necessary as far as gameplay is concerned. How long after Halo 2 came out (Nov. 9) was the 1.1 patch?? because people were on their horse screaming in anger about the problems in the game that brought the 1.1 changes rather quickly.

#22 phreak

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 01:27 PM

I'm not saying that the thread isn't constructively looking at stuff and I'm definitely not endorsing unabashed hugs and kisses. I've stated several things that bother me about what we've seen so far with Halo 3. I was being honest when I said that I thought negative topics would come up after the beta and I did, in fact, just get off the phone with Ivan only hours earlier stating the same thing.

My only point is that topics like "M6D inclusions being mandatory lest Bungie disrespect their fanbase" -or- "Halo 3 is getting too complex for its own good," are the type of topics that really should come after playing the game - not before. That they come before precludes the lack of bias I think we should approach a game of Halo 3's caliber with, considering the negativity some of you share about Halo 2. When I've complained about Halo 3, I've talked about water effects (which weren't final) and the location of the team chat function, things I know about and can reasonably comment on because I've played other games or seen footage that allows me to make that judgment.

Talking about the role of a weapon when we've only seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the beta's weapon layout and haven't even played the game yet -or- discussing the greater complexity of a game in a series which hardly could have been called complex before seems like we're unconsciously preparing our chess pieces for the inevitable "Everything I Hate About Halo 3" thread...

I certainly don't have a problem with this type of discussion because it is elevated and skeptical (things I like), I just thing it's a little early for it. Once we play the game we can make statements which are backed by experience and not assumptions...


I can agree with this. It is difficult to have an informed discussion at this point; I just thought it was something worth bringing up because it could potentially be an issue.

Edited by jesusphreak, 06 May 2007 - 01:27 PM.


#23 vociferous

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 02:17 PM

I can agree with this. It is difficult to have an informed discussion at this point; I just thought it was something worth bringing up because it could potentially be an issue.

And it may well. The may well be a hundred different things that we all agree should be different about Halo 3. It's just that the particular thing in this thread can be turned off completely, so if we don't like it, we can eff' it and move onto greener pastures. I don't have a problem with this debate though...ignore my posts completely.

#24 UHYVE

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 04:49 PM

You know, I take back my original stance on this. Halo 1 and 2 weren't simple at all. If you're against any team that's better than average, then you can't simply run and gun, you have to use strategy, and all these additions are doing is adding to possible strategies.

#25 phreak

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 07:36 PM

You know, I take back my original stance on this. Halo 1 and 2 weren't simple at all. If you're against any team that's better than average, then you can't simply run and gun, you have to use strategy, and all these additions are doing is adding to possible strategies.


Just because the gameplay is simple it doesn't mean you won't have to use strategy.

A complex game does not equal a strategic game and a simple game does not mean a purely run-and-gun game. As a matter of fact I believe the reason Halo 1 was so strategic is because it was so simple - there were only so many modes of attack you could take so you really had to think about it.

Edited by jesusphreak, 06 May 2007 - 07:36 PM.


#26 Jironimo

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 11:00 PM

First of all I want to say that I think it's silly to think that because we have a few new features like "equipment" it will make the game complex. The bread and butter of H3 will still be shooting, grenades, and melee. I'm sure if Cuse went into H3 blind without knowing about the new features he'd still pwn most people because it's a small part of the gameplay but something that could eventually add a lot of depth to tactics within the game. Someone could have gone from HCE to H2 and done just fine without knowing about boarding or dual-wielding so long as they had a BR start. I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion about why we should or shouldn't be complaining about H3. I will say that I'm very disappointed with the tone of this and thread and another started by JP because they're both very negative, and I think that's what Jeremy meant when he said that you start controversy. I think this is definitely a good discussion about possible repercussions for new gameplay elements, but it's not in any sort of objective form. The thread title and first post were very negative and I have a problem with this considering none of us have played the game. Going forward I expect everyone to be a little bit more reasonable and practical with their critiques for the game. There's a difference between the way JP/mattacus decide to talk about their complaints and how Jeremy and others have talked about their complaints/concerns for gameplay aspects.

#27 mattacus

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 03:55 AM

?? Seriously, do I come of as though I think H3 is going to be shit? I'm so excited for this game I can hardly stand it. While I am not hesitant in vocalizing my disappointment with the second iteration of this series, I can't remember myself complaining about anything I've seen in H3. Please, before you lump me in with the H3 complainers, read my posts. If you have read my posts and have misunderstood something I've said, let me know. I think equipment kicks ass. I welcome the return of the assault rifle, I've let go of my desires for H1's pistol. What more do you want? Seriously. Really, I'm serious.

#28 Syracuse022

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 05:15 AM

First of all I want to say that I think it's silly to think that because we have a few new features like "equipment" it will make the game complex. The bread and butter of H3 will still be shooting, grenades, and melee. I'm sure if Cuse went into H3 blind without knowing about the new features he'd still pwn most people because it's a small part of the gameplay but something that could eventually add a lot of depth to tactics within the game. Someone could have gone from HCE to H2 and done just fine without knowing about boarding or dual-wielding so long as they had a BR start.

Truth.

I don't think H3 looks too complex, at least in a gameplay sense. I do, however, think that all of these weapon, power-up, and equipment options call for a much more in-depth gametype editor, with much more control over weapon spawns, etc. I mean, with so many new weapons, a map like Last Resort or High Ground can't possibly hold all of the goodness, and it would suck to see a weapon like the SMG or Brute Spiker occupying a spot that could be used for something actually, you know, good, that people will actually pick up... I really hope that a more full featured gametype/weapon spawn editor will sneak its way into the final game...

#29 vociferous

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 06:18 AM

Please, before you lump me in with the H3 complainers, read my posts. If you have read my posts and have misunderstood something I've said, let me know. I think equipment kicks ass. I welcome the return of the assault rifle, I've let go of my desires for H1's pistol. What more do you want? Seriously.

Nothing. You've been perfect. Let's brokeback sometime.

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#30 Blamo

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 06:24 AM

Nothing. You've been perfect. Let's brokeback sometime.

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shiver down my spine...

#31 r3dn3ck snip3r

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 06:39 AM

Good topic, jesusphreak... But I think the answer is within your initial question... Bungie has been working a shitload on this game, and if the gameplay didn't feel right to them, they would change it. I think that initially, the game will be a bit complex, but after awhile, like someone else said, we will develop new tactics and strategies which account for things like the power drainer and other items... Speaking of the power drainer, can anybody tell me what the hell it even does?

#32 zenbaltz

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:17 AM

It drains power numb-nuts... lol

#33 vociferous

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:32 AM

Speaking of the power drainer, can anybody tell me what the hell it even does?

It's a device that when thrown at the ground it creates a large bubble of energy, the energy quickly dissipates your shields and then your health until you're dead.

#34 Drew

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:14 AM

It's a device that when thrown at the ground it creates a large bubble of energy, the energy quickly dissipates your shields and then your health until you're dead.

Really? It depletes your health?

#35 mattacus

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:16 AM

shiver down my spine...


You had me at "...ignore my posts completely."

/that's what [h]e said.

#36 phreak

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:43 AM

I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion about why we should or shouldn't be complaining about H3. I will say that I'm very disappointed with the tone of this and thread and another started by JP because they're both very negative, and I think that's what Jeremy meant when he said that you start controversy. I think this is definitely a good discussion about possible repercussions for new gameplay elements, but it's not in any sort of objective form. The thread title and first post were very negative and I have a problem with this considering none of us have played the game.

Hold on. What is the difference between:

'Will Halo 3 be too complex for its own good?'

and

'Will Halo 3 be too complex?'

One is a little more elaborate, but I don't see how it is more negative.

Going forward I expect everyone to be a little bit more reasonable and practical with their critiques for the game. There's a difference between the way JP/mattacus decide to talk about their complaints and how Jeremy and others have talked about their complaints/concerns for gameplay aspects.


Maybe I could've toned my post better (that's not how I write), but was there anything in my post that wasn't realistic? I think it was a constructive piece of criticism, and it is a valid concern.

The difference between how you and Jeremy talk about the game and how I and others might talk about the game is I thought Halo 2 was a piece of crap and you guys didn't. I'm naturally going to be a lot more hesitant and critical when I see directions they are taking Halo 3. Listen, I won't make any more criticisms of Halo 3 until the beta gets here, but if this board is always going to be about changing thread titles or getting down on someone because they don't like things Bungie has done, then I'll find somewhere else to post.

One thing I like about this board is that there are people with intelligent criticisms of Halo 2 (and perhaps 3). Hopefully that won't go away. I would understand if my thread was just an over-the-top troll, but I really don't feel like it was. It was definitely negative, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have some quality.

And in the future would you mind PMing concerns like this? There's no reason for people to be singled out (mattacus in particular hasn't done anything wrong) and for the entire forum to hear about things like this.

Edited by jesusphreak, 07 May 2007 - 09:54 AM.


#37 mattacus

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:58 AM

(mattacus in particular hasn't done anything wrong)


Yeah, not for like, two weeks.

#38 Jironimo

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 12:21 PM

Hold on. What is the difference between:

'Will Halo 3 be too complex for its own good?'

and

'Will Halo 3 be too complex?'

One is a little more elaborate, but I don't see how it is more negative.
Maybe I could've toned my post better (that's not how I write), but was there anything in my post that wasn't realistic? I think it was a constructive piece of criticism, and it is a valid concern.

The difference between how you and Jeremy talk about the game and how I and others might talk about the game is I thought Halo 2 was a piece of crap and you guys didn't. I'm naturally going to be a lot more hesitant and critical when I see directions they are taking Halo 3. Listen, I won't make any more criticisms of Halo 3 until the beta gets here, but if this board is always going to be about changing thread titles or getting down on someone because they don't like things Bungie has done, then I'll find somewhere else to post.

One thing I like about this board is that there are people with intelligent criticisms of Halo 2 (and perhaps 3). Hopefully that won't go away. I would understand if my thread was just an over-the-top troll, but I really don't feel like it was. It was definitely negative, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have some quality.

And in the future would you mind PMing concerns like this? There's no reason for people to be singled out (mattacus in particular hasn't done anything wrong) and for the entire forum to hear about things like this.

Your title was "Halo 3 too complex for it's own good", and yeah there's a major difference between that and throwing a "will" at the beginning like I did.

If you didn't notice this is a Halo community, so this place is not for people who thought Halo 2 was crap. Was it flawed maybe? It was seriously flawed in many ways but it still wasn't crap. It's not that you can't post anything you're concerned about until the beta/game comes out, it's that I expect everyone to be reasonable about the attitude and unnecessary negativity towards H3. You can expect me to point it out each time I think anyone's getting out of hand, and I'll change thread titles accordingly just like I change them when there's no description of what the topic is about. If your solution is to not post, so be it. It's not what I want because I consider you a friend, but I won't tolerate anyone doing this shit this time around for H3. I wouldn't have tolerated anyone going on and on about how they thought the graphics on Last Resort were crap like they did on other boards, and I won't stand by and watch the same ridiculous thing happen with other aspects of the game.

I posted all this here JP because it's not just you, this applies to everyone. I hate to hijack a thread like this, and I do consider this to be a worthy discussion btw, but I felt it necessary so everyone understands. I don't want to turn this into a discussion, so you can PM me or bring this up on live if you feel the need to argue. I feel I've made my point and you have too so I'll delete any more responses to this thread if it doesn't relate directly to the topic.

#39 UHYVE

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 03:20 PM

I don't think anyone should be horribly surprised if people are worried about H3. Nobody's played it yet and all we've seen is some crappy footage with commentry by some retarded kid. I mean, we're all wanting this game to be the game we'll play until the end of the 360s lifespan. I don't see why anyone should be particularly defensive on the subject, we want Bungie to think about these kinds of things, there's no point in keeping quiet about anything we don't like the look of at this point. And remember, all views are subjective until we get the game... and even then they'll still be pretty subjective, as people still have disagreements about H2 around here. Just to clarify, there's no need for aggression on either side of the arguments, but I don't see why friendly discussions on these kinds of subjects always need to get so heated, people disagree, it happens. But can't we all just get along? :thumbsup:

#40 NJ Shlice

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 03:27 PM

But can't we all just get along?



Yeah we can, its just that sometimes people get a little too crabby , i'm guilty myself, and get worried that Halo 3 isn't going to be what we want it to.

They are throwing a TON of stuff at us right now. It could seem they are overloading the Beta in an attempt to weed out stuff that doesn't belong.

I think one of the most important elements is the respawn time of the Equipment. For all we know they are on a 6minute respawn! And the game wont be this Equipment battle.

So i hope no one takes to heart the bitching and complaining. We are all here because we love love love the Halo series. I dont think anyone goes out of their way to come to THIS site to bitch about how they dont like Halo 2. They can just do that on B.net with all of the other ass-clowns



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