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DLC & Patch Wishlist

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#1 Syracuse022

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 08:47 PM

For a few weeks now, we've gotten to see what works and what doesn't. Let's make a list of things that we feel need to happen as part of DLC and an auto-update. I'll start us off:

-M6D. Forge maps are a beautiful thing. If you don't want to play someone's creation, don't. That means if I put an M6D on MY map and play with other people with similar inclinations, who cares if we're using the M6D? If you're not playing with us, you don't have to use it.

Odds: 100 to 1.


-Lockout. Now, I don't necessarily mean a Lockout remake (some of the other guys seem certain we're getting one, though - I don't want any more remakes personally). What I'm looking for is a recognition of what made Lockout great - way too many of the early crop of maps feature little more than tight hallways and confined combat. This includes Guardian, the supposed successor to Lockout. Too bad Guardian features little of the verticality and none of the 'line of sight' (so many angles from which to view other areas of the map) that made Lockout so great.

Odds: Remake 6 to 1
Realization of the design features that made Lockout great: 4 to 1.


-Improved Custom Game Options. No starting grenade manipulation? Missing starting weapons (carbine, for example)? The inability to change loadouts for different teams in 1-sided flag and bomb variants? Each new discovery makes me wonder who Bungie thought they were kidding with a few of these customizable features. Voc recently pointed out that Forge is a huge step forward, but Custom Game Options (for those of us who don't mess with speed and gravity) have seen few changes (of those changes, some have even been steps backward...)

Odds: 3 to 1


-Ghost Rockets. Seriously? This is not a new glitch at all, but it still persists where others have been removed... I really need to get a Saved Film of this in action and start spreading it around because I just can't believe Bungie hasn't fixed this frustrating glitch in the new game.

Odds: 10 to 1


-Ghost reloads. This one's a new one, and it's a doozy. Think reload animations feel like they take an eternity when you're under duress? Try waiting through TWO of them (I've even gotten THREE once.) Most people act like I'm taking crazy pills when I describe this glitch, but I assure you, you'll experience it soon enough, and even if you don't, I'll eventually remember to grab a clip from one of my Saved Films. What the glitch basically entails is this: you reload, get ready to take action, then watch, mystified, as the game starts the reload animation all over again, thinking that you still need to reload. What. The. Hell. Guaranteed death. If this doesn't get fixed, heads will roll.

Odds: 3 to 1


-Touch Return CTF. In case you haven't tried it, it's broken. Gone are the glorious days of killing an adversary just inches from returning the flag you worked so hard to steal. Remember those? Watching in sheer exuberation as your foe wilted and his momentum carried him into the flag he had tried so hard to return? The new system where you 'download' the flag like a territory in order to return it to your base means that setting up a CTF custom game with touch return turns out to be 20 foot radius return. This is, in a word, WHACK.

Odds: If Bungie hears about this, they have no excuse NOT fixing this. Even money.


-Wide Open Spaces. Valhalla and Sandtrap are money. But they're the only maps where the vehicles can roam free? I'm personally looking forward to a few more places to splazr unwitting foes in Big Team Battle.

Odds: Duh. I just wanted to make sure I included one where I would definitely be right so I could point to it in a few months and act intelligent.


Edited by Syracuse022, 15 October 2007 - 08:49 PM.


#2 h00ters11

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 09:16 PM

^ What he said. Agreed on everything. What I would wish for is a way to fix that 'ghost punch'. Maybe I'm just getting worse in my old age but I feel at least once or twice a game I hear my would-be-fatal punch land only to be geek tossed 40 yards back.
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#3 vociferous

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:50 AM

-M6D. - I agree entirely with this. In a sandbox where they include the Hornet, the Flamethrower, the Spartan Laser, the Scorpion Tank and a considerable number of overpowered weapons/vehicles, I see no reason why something incredibly reasonable like the original M6D could not have been implemented in campaign and as part the multiplayer options. Why the M6G? Who uses it? Worthless trash and practically an insult toward the people who loved the original. I was on the fence about this before the game came out, but after using the M6G, I think the mistake is lucidly apparent. Will they do it? Nope.

-Lockout. - Normally I'd say no remakes, but after playing Halo 3, experiencing the new maps, it's clear Halo 2 had some things which Halo 3 doesn't. Plus, we've already got a 'similar concept' in Guardian and it executes well. That means I want the real deal - a real Lockout (yeah, the map we could play over and over and over and over again without it getting tiring). Actually, I want Lockout, Midship and Terminal back. I'm sure they'd be incredible with Halo 3's mechancis and sandbox. I want them back and they can muck with the textures, I don't care...just give me the same environment/concept. Exactly. Thank you.

-Improved Custom Game Options. - They won't fix this, but yeah, Halo 1.5 customization for people who don't like to dink with lightning fast, floating, invulnerable supermen with swords, a hammers and laser eyes. There's a good number of weapons you can't start with and others you can't put as secondary. No Gauss Hog on Valhalla? Instead, let's put four Hornets on Construct and give them a few hundred square feet to 'battle' each other. Boggles my mind why they gimped some of this stuff. What was the reasoning behind that decision?

-Touch Return CTF. - Agreed. There's a few things about CTF that I can definitely see revamping. Doubt it'll be done though.

-Wide Open Spaces. - I really don't know what I want at this point, but they need to execute better. Hopefully we'll get a few Sanctuary and Turf maps (winners from H2's DLC) and maybe a big one that has more in common with Valhalla than Sandtrap. I talk about what I don't want here.

#4 Oozer

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 10:01 AM

I know exactly what you're talking about with the ghost reloads. That has happened to me a lot. And there is definitely something broken with the melee system. If 2 people go to melee each other at roughly the same time, it seems like it's completely random who wins, instead of who actually hits their opponent first.

#5 Drew

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 02:53 PM

This is why I love these forums. I'm not as patient as Voc, and so I won't write out a response to each point, but I agree with everything you said. There are some maps, or at least concepts from those maps, that I would really like to see return. I don't care if we had a Hang 'Em High remake for Halo 2, I want one for Halo 3, or at least something that conveys the general purpose. What with the beefed up Battle Rifle, this would actually be feasible in Halo 3. It'd work even better if they brought back the M6D. Sidewinder is another I'd like to see return, if not in actuality, at least in concept. Two bases out of sight of one another with a long run to each in a vehicle or a shorter, infantry-only path. More big maps in general, as well. The two we have are great, and I know I'm a little biased here, but it seems that the ratio of big to little maps is far too skewed. Hell, it's more big to medium, there aren't any true "small" maps. All of them are medium-sized by Halo 1 and 2 standards. They work well, sure, but it'd be nice to have something a little more frenetic every now and then. Of course, I'd like to see Lockout return as well. Guardian, while at first seeming to be Lockout in spirit, quickly falls apart under close examination. It takes a long time to get from the bottom of the map to the top, and that in its self destroys the way that Lockout used to play. Limiting strategies and escape routes and stifling the ability to reach any important location on the map in seconds. It also has the issue of having too much cover and enclosed areas, making the map feel slow and dull in comparison. The map should have a clear line-of-sight, allowing an almost completely unobstructed view of the entire arena. Players should never feel left out of a firefight, they should know that they can intervene in almost any fight on the map within a moments notice. This keeps them constantly under pressure and constantly engaged. Eh. Longer than I was intending, but whatever. It's nice to see that some echo my thoughts on the matter, as I've been getting a little frustrated with the game if my recent absence hasn't been indicator enough. Hopefully Bungie will iron out some of the issues, and we can all go home happy, but that's in a perfect world. We'll see, and I hope for the best. Thanks for giving me an avenue to vent, Cuse. I appreciate it, and it's nice to have like minds around every now and then.

#6 Plankton

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 03:02 PM

Letterboxed 1280x1024 support. At the moment it stretches the image. Pretty bad that it does this with the 360's biggest game. I'm sure VGA monitor users are in the minority, but surely it's not a hard fix? Especially as letterboxing it would make perfect 720p (I think? Maybe I'm wrong here). Anyway, it should be fixed.

#7 Tyja

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 04:10 PM

Self contained Mini Campaigns would be awesome, say 3 levels or so. I'd pay for that. Since campaign now has the more replayability with scoring and whatnot, it seems more content to keep people entertained is a possiblilty now more than ever. Realistically however, 'Classic Weapons' pack and new Armour Perms would be cool.

#8 quickshade

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 04:18 PM

Drew brings up a good point, Why hasn't the #1 16 player rated map made a return.. I don't know. I played campaign and it was epic. Tons of fun and I had a blast. Matchmaking kind of works but has some kinks. They will be fixed over time though. But I just don't feel like playing multiplayer. Maybe I'm outgrowing gaming, but Halo 3's multiplayer didn't grab me by the ears and make me play for 5 months straight like Halo 2 did. And that was a broken game. It's weird, and I feel bad.

#9 Va1or

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 05:09 PM

If there is any game that could nickel and dime 360 owners, for the the rest of the life of the console, it's Halo 3. This games legs are going to be so long and DLC is going to keep the content and money flowing. - Lots of maps. I fully expect 3 map sets at a minimum. I think Halo 3 will retire with closer to 30 maps than the 11 it shipped with. Give me a Lockout remake and don't change the geometry! I'll also take a few new and great asymmetric 1 flag maps. While I'm at it I'd love a couple more, big, vehicle friendly maps that don't suck. - More armor perms. Hopefully this will be an incentive for the horde of Hyabusa wearing troops to move on. I want more perms that look like they could exist in the Halo universe and not the TMNT one. I'd especially love more color customization options for your armor. - Better Forge and multiplayer options - Additional campaign stuff. This seems super unlikely but I'd love to fight another mission inside the Halo 3 engine. -M6D For Cuse.

Edited by Va1or, 16 October 2007 - 05:11 PM.


#10 Syracuse022

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:27 AM

Bottom line regarding melees: The awk hawk spreads his wings and soars majestically whenever the melee button is pressed. The lunge system is vastly improved over Halo 2 and melees almost always connect when they should, but Halo 1 still has the most solid feeling melee system of the 3. It feels especially weird not having a double melee (both of the first 2 did) because, say what you will about button combos, double melees changed close combat for the better, making timing and speed much more of a factor. Speaking of timing and speed, don't bother working on them until after melee combat has been patched, if it's even possible for Bungie to patch such a core part of the engine, which is doubtful. So... yeah...

#11 DualX

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 01:07 AM

I've noticed that happening to me so many damn times....

#12 Drew

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:22 PM

I knew there was a problem with the melees, and people called me crazy when I was convinced that I hit the other person first, and somehow ended up dying. I've hit people before they would even know that I was coming, and I somehow died. Just to make sure, I've watched films. As was the case, I always hit first, yet I still died. I always chalked it up to lag, but wow. Thanks for the film, Cuse. That's a huge problem.

#13 SharpeWolfe

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:55 PM

Here's my addition to the wish list, since you guys nailed the current problems I'll skip those: A Grinder Map: What I thought of for this one is basically a Campaign type environment and setting where you could turn on Scoring as well as Skulls. The name itself speaks for what I want; a grinder mode where waves of enemies get larger and harder to kill. Due to the fact that it would be a Campaign setting, it might be limited to four people, or they might manage to make it 8, but for now we'll go with four. That's all I really want that hasn't been mentioned, doubt I get it, but I can dream.
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#14 Kinetic

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 04:13 PM

Here's my addition to the wish list, since you guys nailed the current problems I'll skip those:

A Grinder Map: What I thought of for this one is basically a Campaign type environment and setting where you could turn on Scoring as well as Skulls. The name itself speaks for what I want; a grinder mode where waves of enemies get larger and harder to kill. Due to the fact that it would be a Campaign setting, it might be limited to four people, or they might manage to make it 8, but for now we'll go with four.

That's all I really want that hasn't been mentioned, doubt I get it, but I can dream.

Cling to the dream, Sharpe! Cling to it!

#15 Nightshade

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 05:39 PM

Cling to the dream, Sharpe! Cling to it!

Don't let her go... Don't EVER, let her go.

#16 Drew

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:47 PM

Don't let her go... Don't EVER, let her go.

=/

#17 Jironimo

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:01 AM

Speaking of timing and speed, don't bother working on them until after melee combat has been patched, if it's even possible for Bungie to patch such a core part of the engine, which is doubtful. So... yeah...

Thanks for the vid Cuse. I must say that I was skeptical of people's complaints even though I felt something fishy was going on with my melees. Nevertheless, I completely trusted that Bungie balanced it and that I wasn't playing the game correctly even though I saw something that didn't match the end result. Well, the truth is very upsetting and I'm very disappointed with Bungie about this melee system. They need to fix this because according to their Golden Tripod of combat this means that 33% of that combat is fucked and completely broken.

#18 Va1or

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 03:16 AM

Yeah, the new melee system pretty much sucks. I've heard my melee contact my enemy many times with what should have been a killing blow, only to get owned myself.

Thanks for the link Cuse. I remember reading Frankie say this only happens when the opponents hit the melee at exactly the same time. What a load of bull. I knew it was bull from my personal experience, having dealt out 440 melee kills so far in ranked sessions alone. I knew that there was no way my opponent was pressing the melee button at the exact same time as me as often as I got cheated out of a melee kill.

For a very precise, competitive and split second action game, this was a horrible call on Bungie's part. Just another chink in Halo 3's armor.

#19 urk

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 04:42 AM

A few of us are being pretty vocal in the GAF Halo 3 multiplayer thread, hoping Frankie, Luke, or Tyson will take note. It's a really poor design decision and very reminiscent of the grenade nerf from Halo 2's launch. It takes control away from the player, placing the outcome within an arbitrary system instead of relying on reflex, timing, and tactics. And that's very frustrating.

Edited by urk, 19 October 2007 - 04:43 AM.


#20 mattacus

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 05:27 AM

I'm having trouble following. How is this any shittier than H2's melee system. There were countless H2 games in which I launched my melee, heard the crunch, and then was dead. That doesn't happen to me nearly as often in H3.



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