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#81 Cocopjojo

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

And for the record, I'm super excited that the PS4 has finally caught up to Xbox in terms of online functionality, like party chat. And the fact that it's $100 cheaper and a bit more powerful is a huge win for Sony. I've already got my PS4 preordered.

#82 DualX

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:34 PM

Here. Not to mention that the PS4 also has the game recording/uploading service, and even the "take control of your friends game" feature.

I never cared for the Kinect especially now that it still has to always be connected. Screw that big brother crap. I mean they were even considering banning the console at military installations because of the new Kinect alone.

#83 Cocopjojo

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

Yoshida's comment there is just PR fluff in response to the Xbone. Sony literally doesn't have the infrastructure to support it at the level that MS does. MS already has thousands of Azure servers spread out at datacenters across the world. Yoshida's claim is the equivalent of Xbox saying they can do the Gaikai streaming thing. Sure, it's possible, but they're not going to because it'd require a massive investment into tech that they don't currently have. And the Kinect has been around for years and no one's hacked it yet to peer into someone's living room when they weren't aware. And you even can turn it off when you're not using it. If you're worried about the Kinect then you should also be worried about the fact that your iPhone has two cameras, an amazingly sensitive microphone, it has access to your e-mail and text messages, can GPS track you, and you take it with you everywhere you go.

#84 DualX

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

That's good to know because I don't have an iPhone. lol First smartphone I owned was an iPhone 4, then tried out the Droid Incredible 2 with android, and now I'm using a Nokia Lumia 820 windows phone. No one has to hack into the Kinect. Where have you been? The NSA is doing that already with just about everything internet connected. I don't need to give them more data with a visual feed if I can help it. Back on track though, I really didn't believe them when they said they are going to have server support for every game. 300,000 servers? How do we even know these are not virtual servers? EDIT: The point I'm trying to make about the Kinect is that there really isn't a need to have it included with the system. It would be more enticing for someone like me to purchase a system that could potentially be $100 cheaper without it. Aside from Project Spark, what other games did they show off that actually used it? EDIT2: And with the comment about your phone having cameras, your phone doesn't have the ability to see in the dark, read your heartbeat, knows your mood by reading facial expressions, and all the other crazy stuff it can do...

Edited by DualX, 19 June 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#85 Cocopjojo

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:09 PM

Sales dollars do the talking. When you think about the fact that the 360 has been on top ever since MS released Kinect, coupled with the fact that most people use their Xbox for Netflix rather than games, then it makes sense that MS would think that a mandatory Kinect would be a good idea - so that every Xbone allows voice control for Netflix, the Dashboard, etc. right out of the box.

#86 DualX

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

And that's probably one of my biggest concerns with it. It's an entertainment box with a confusing name and not a video game console anymore. Making us pay extra to have these extra features that I don't even use.

#87 Niterider

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:31 PM

Sorry Cocop but I disagree with a lot of your points.

I think it's a step backwards for consoles, and a big hit against anyone trying to innovate. The Xbone's Family Sharing Plan would have completely changed how people share games, and saved a lot of people a lot of money.

I highly doubt that. DRM isn't designed to save the consumer money. And knowing MS it would've sucked. Do you think MS would've implemented this in a way that could cut their potential sales of Titanfall 10 fold? Maybe that's a bad assumption. I mean, it's not like the online only requirement cut their user base by about a third. Oh wait...

The cloud support that Titanfall is using could have been used by other single-player games, but now it won't be since games need to be playable offline.

Titanfall is coming to 360, which alone proves disabling online only doesn't change anything. If developers want to design around the cloud and assume online only then they are welcome to. Their demographic hasn't changed.

The fact that the console could be disconnected for 24 hours means most SP games had to be playable offline anyways. The only thing that changes is that those same single player games are accessible to more people. Think back to SIMCITY for "online social features" that are an integral part of the game. So integral that if you used a random number generator instead, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

And the new disc install feature is probably going to change now, too, so we won't be able to install a game and then ditch the disc forever.

First gen games are too far into their development cycles to lose this. If any of them textured streamed, they'd be screwed. I imagine installations will be optional, either by the individual or as a developer requirement. If you want to ditch the disc forever, just download it to begin with. You wouldn't be able to trade the disk without trading your license anyways. Again, nothing changed.

And the cloud support that I'm talking is the Azure servers that can have processing offloaded onto them. This is what Titanfall is using, and what MS talked about other games being able to use. Hopefully they still do that and just require those games to be always-on. Sony doesn't have this.

I have a hard time believing Azure, or any server, could do a better job with processing than my console could do locally with the exception hosting games. It just sounds like "complex calculations" that become completely unnecessary the second you go offline. Quite frankly I don't see any advantage to a cloud for multiplayer games. I could see Azure running similarly like OnLive or Sony's Gaikai to steam some of it's processing power, but the response time over the net would mean it sucks for high-paced multiplayer games anyway.

And as far as not everyone having an internet connection, that was the nature of the console (prior to today). It wasn't that MS didn't understand that not everyone has internet, it was a judgment call that it's OK to make this console a new type of thing that only works for people who have broadband.

Which makes it a bad business decision. There are zero consumer advantages, only DRM advantages, and sales disadvantages to an online only requirement.

There's a weak "interview" with Major Nelson that caught my attention. The source is generally considered credible but definitely not 100%.

The company doesn't even see Sony as a thread. Even better, it believes that the PS4's graphics RAM will run hotter, besides not being as optimized as the Xbox One.

You're making an assumption that Sony's engineers are idiots. That's not really a position you should take considering the Xbox RROD vastly outweighed Sony's YLOD.

He also pointed out that unlike the free games you get on PSN, the two free games per month on XBL are yours forever. Whereas if you cancel your PS Plus subscription, you would lose those games."

A policy Sony could easily change if they worked out the legalities, and probably will to compete.

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Edited by Niterider, 19 June 2013 - 05:33 PM.

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#88 Jironimo

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:41 PM

Dual, the bottom line for me is that Sony has no credibility with their online service. They are just now about to add features which xbox live has had for years, and they proved this week they can't do patches effectively since it bricked a ton of their customer's consoles. If there's one thing we have to give MS is that they've done very well with xbox live and the cloud. Sony just now has finally decided to start charging for online multiplayer because they know they can't compete. Xbox live going forward will have worldwide dedicated servers for online gaming and compute support. I can tell you that cloud compute is the future and it will take off for gaming because this technology is already used for business applications some of which are very latency sensitive. It will never take over for graphics totally but it can do AI, physics and other less latency sensitive portions of games. The fact that entire maps or online worlds can live in the cloud is a huge amount offloaded from the local console. The MS Azure cloud is the real deal, I have seen these facilities in person through my work and they have them worldwide because other enterprise services they sell use these same data-centers. Sony's entire online infrastructure would be a switch closet compared to MS' data centers, it's like comparing Nintendo's online to Amazon it's not a comparison at all. Oh and one detail about the xbox live free games, it's not a permanent thing. It's 2 free games a month until the xbox one comes out. It's a limited promo.

#89 DualX

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:17 PM

My whole argument before the announcement today was that I am against DRM. Didn't do anyone any favors when Ubisoft thought it was a brilliant idea to attempt it and they also eventually dropped it too. I'm glad X1 is now a lot closer for me wanting to purchase the system, but I'm still skeptical about these server "cloud" functions that the both of you seem to think will change everything. I really think having that stuff built into these games are bad for the long run as those types of games will be completely unplayable once they are not supported. It would be just like this: New Halo game is coming out so you want to play through the games again before it does only to find that you can only play the first trilogy (plus 4) because the last two had these awesome campaign server features. Shit. Say what you want, but there are people that do exactly this. I still nostalgia over games and want to go back to enjoy them from time to time. Sony has made some pretty damn good progress since the original launch day. And I can rely on the PS4 to not fuck up when I want to play Watchdogs or whatever, whenever I want. PS+ is a better deal than what Microsoft is doing because they've been giving their users free fully functioning games. Their free online service wasn't as good as the 360 sure, but it was FREE. So the PS4 should have a 360 like online experience with the same free games they give out monthly. Not only that, but you get all of the games that were made free since the beginning. Not a limited time offer. I'll have no issues paying for that.

#90 Jironimo

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:44 PM

The Microsoft Cloud as explained by Giant Bomb and Respawn. This is a good explanation. I would add that Amazon in addition to MS and Google are really the only companies that can do this.

#91 DualX

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:39 AM

I sincerely hope this doesn't mean we will run into more SimCity and Diablo 3 scenarios. Edit: I also think you guys are wrong. If Titanfall had these X1 cloud features, how would it be possible to port it over to PS4? Its a timed exclusive, and that was announced well before they cut the DRM features.

Edited by DualX, 20 June 2013 - 04:50 AM.


#92 Cocopjojo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:10 AM

Maybe it'll be downgraded like on the 360. Maybe it'll have longer load times while the extra processing is done. Maybe it didn't even really need the cloud, it just made it easier on the team to code. Or maybe Microsoft just asked them to use the Cloud so someone would do it.

But the concept of using the Cloud is a real thing. Microsoft's just done a terrible job of explaining it, like with everything else.

Think about it this way.

When you placed objects in Halo 3's Forge, they didn't cast shadows. This is because the lightmap, which was generated prior to the game being pressed to disc, didn't include these objects at their current placement. But let's say each time you placed a Forge object, your console could send a request to the Cloud to generate a lightmap. You keep Forging or whatever, and a few seconds later the finished lightmap gets sent back to your console, and the map automatically updates with the proper shadows that your console was too busy running the game to be able to generate.

There are a ton of hurdles to overcome in this example, and I'm not an engineer or a lighting artist, but it should get the point across that two computers are faster than one computer, and it works especially well if the data that needs to be generated takes a long time but is ultimately small. So just take this example and apply it to AI, draw distance, or whatever else.

Disclaimer: I did not work on Microsoft's Xbone cloud system, I didn't work on Forge. I don't know if this will be in the next Halo game or if it was already in Halo 4. It's just an example I made up based on the idea of using the cloud to "offload processing" like Microsoft keeps saying in interviews.

#93 Niterider

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:27 PM

From what I've seen here, the cloud is nothing more than a fancy clump of servers that provide shared computing power. Looks great for developers but the only two things I can think of for console use is video/game video rendering and dedicated servers. I will admit the idea of matchmaking on a dedicated server sounds like an excellent idea. As far as server side processing for games...yeah no. I'll write another thread that will tie into this one on that subject when I have time.
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#94 DualX

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:11 PM

the cloud is nothing more than a fancy clump of servers

Or another way of saying "dedicated servers" which have been around for years. How can this only be for X1?

#95 Niterider

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:46 PM

This is probably the best explaination I've seen for cloud usage.

 

You can probably skip the first half as it explains what anyone with cognitive reasoning already knows about dedicated servers (and the lack of them on consoles).  Their example was AI, which means we wouldn't get another Halo Coop mode with massive lag (except that was because Bungie was adamant all xbox's had to be in sync for whatever reason, nobody else does that).  With their explaination, you could expand the logic to include any process that would normally be done by the host and transmitted to other players could be done by the server.

 

While I understand that means none of the processing power gets wasted, I still have the feeling that it's still unecessary.  My understanding is that these kinds of processes consume a negliable amount of resources, so the real advatage of the cloud is what we suspected, cheap dedicated servers.
 

I don't think the cloud will be limited to the Xbox 1 and Titanfall is just being used as part of a marketing gimmick.  I highly doubt MS would reject an exclusive or multiplayer publisher from buying server time just because their game runs on PS4.


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#96 Vanwadilion

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

Despite the $100 extra price tag, despite the initial unpopular policies, I still see the Xbox One as the system with the most potential to have the best gaming experience possible.  I like that Kinect is built in to every system; hopefully developers will do something cool with it.  I still prefer the xbox controller, UI, online system and exclusive franchises.  Titanfall looks like the best console game coming out of E3. 

 

I'm still in wait and see mode for the next couple of months, but it's looking like Xbox will be my first console.



#97 Nightshade

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

So word is out.  Don Mattrick is "leaving" Microsoft for Zynga.  This comes out after Ballmer had been talking about "major changes" taking place within the company.

This is some straight up anarchy.  



#98 Drew

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:48 PM

Report: Don Mattrick Leaving Microsoft for...Zynga? [UPDATE: It's Official]

It's official: Don Mattrick is CEO of Zynga. Here's his quote about the move from Zynga's press release on the hire.

    "In its short history, Zynga has redefined entertainment and brought social gaming to the mainstream. More than 1 billion people across web and mobile have installed Zynga games, and franchises like FarmVille and Words With Friends have become a part of people's daily lives," said Mattrick. "I joined Zynga because I believe that Mark's pioneering vision and mission to connect the world through games is just getting started. Zynga is a great business that has yet to realize its full potential. I'm proud to partner with Mark to deliver high-quality, fun, social games wherever people want to play."

 

Hahahaha.


Edited by Drew, 01 July 2013 - 05:49 PM.


#99 Nightshade

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

Fantastic reading comprehension today Drew.



#100 Drew

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

Fantastic reading comprehension today Drew.

I was posting the link to the article. Suck my dick, Blaze.




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