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Starcraft II


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#1 Niterider

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 01:02 PM

Why a Starcraft II thread? Because we need it.

List of AJ'ers (I’ll keep this updated if needed);

AJ Name : Battle.net name : AIM
Niterider : SergeantEgo : Niterider04Xbox

Introduction:

Games like Half-Life and Halo can define or redefine a genre. The original Starcraft did this in 1998 for the Real Time Strategy genre, and was considered an international eSport. Until the release of Starcraft II, it was considered a very serious pastime in South Korea, similar Football in the US or Football/Soccer in many other countries.

Previous RTS games relied on ensuring both teams were on equal footing. Warcraft II in particular had two nearly identical races. Starcraft keeps balance while using 3 distinct races that don't play anything like each other.

SC and SCII also create a balance of micro and macromanagement. Micromanagement is controlling units individually to maximize their effectiveness, while macromanagement focuses on creating large armies. While the game shifts from micro to macro, it's always important to utilize both throughout a standard match. This is opposed to the recent trend of the RTS genre. With games like Command and Conquer 4 and Warcraft 3, the genre was moving to a micro only format.

One reason Starcraft is so fun is because it’s a juggling act. You have to carefully consider when you want to work on your economy or when you want to build workers, when to attack and when to defend, when to micro and when to macro. It’s very dynamic and keeps things consistently interesting.

In addition, I believe that the original Starcraft had a major story influence on the Halo series, and the similarities are somewhat disturbing. The major difference between the two is that each of the three races are in a standstill war as opposed to humanity, with the exception of Spartans/ODST's, always having a disadvantage.

Resources:

Liquipedia is run by Team Liquid, who are known for being the best of the best in Starcraft. They provide several build orders and lots of unit information to help get you started.

http://wiki.teamliqu...Terran_Strategy
http://wiki.teamliqu...2/Zerg_Strategy
http://wiki.teamliqu...rotoss_Strategy

I also recommend you watch a few professional games. They’ll help you understand how to play Starcraft well. These guys are the best casters I’ve seen.

http://www.youtube.c.../HuskyStarcraft
http://www.youtube.c...ser/HDStarcraft

Technical Stuff:

PC Requirements

PC Minimum System Requirements*:

* Windows? XP/Windows Vista?/Windows? 7 (Updated with the latest Service Packs) with DirectX? 9.0c
* 2.6 GHz Pentium? IV or equivalent AMD Athlon? processor
* 128 MB PCIe NVIDIA? GeForce? 6600 GT or ATI Radeon? 9800 PRO video card or better
* 12 GB available HD space
* 1 GB RAM (1.5 GB required for Windows Vista?/Windows? 7 users)
* DVD-ROM drive
* Broadband Internet connection
* 1024X720 minimum display resolution

PC Recommended Specifications:

* Windows Vista?/Windows? 7
* Dual Core 2.4Ghz Processor
* 2 GB RAM
* 512 MB NVIDIA? GeForce? 8800 GTX or ATI Radeon? HD 3870 or better

*Note: Due to potential programming changes, the Minimum System Requirements for this game may change over time.
Mac Requirements

Mac Minimum System Requirements:

* Mac? OS X 10.5.8, 10.6.2 or newer
* Intel? Processor
* NVIDIA? GeForce? 8600M GT or ATI Radeon? X1600 or better
* 12 GB available HD space
* 2 GB Ram
* DVD-ROM drive
* Broadband Internet connection
* 1024X720 minimum display resolution

Mac Recommended Specifications:

* Intel? Core 2 Duo processor
* 4 GB system RAM
* NVIDIA? GeForce? 9600M GT or ATI Radeon? HD 4670 or better

There was an issue with an Nvidia update during the beta that would literally fry graphics cards. This wasn’t Starcraft II specific, but spanned all Blizzard games. The issue is now resolved, so if you run Nvidia, make sure you update your drivers.

There’s another bug with Starcraft II specifically that also can fry your card if you’re not careful. There is a temporary work around that is effectively a fancy vertical sync.

Screens that are light on detail may make your system overheat if cooling is overall insufficient. This is because the game has nothing to do so it is primarily just working on drawing the screen very quickly. A temporary workaround is to go to your Documents\StarCraft II Beta\variables.txt file and add these lines:

frameratecapglue=30
frameratecap=60

You may replace these numbers if you want to.


Note: It’s just Starcraft II now that the game is out, not Starcraft II Beta in the file path.

http://us.battle.net.../topic/13501356
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#2 txlonghorn

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 02:53 PM

I've been playing a little wow, it's alright, pc games just don't really do it for me.

#3 Drew

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:24 PM

I played it and returned it for store credit after I beat the campaign. I really, really don't like it. I don't know what it is, but something just feels... off about it. It doesn't have the same charm that Starcraft I had, I think, and it doesn't help that the story was just a giant clusterfuck.

#4 Niterider

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:33 PM

Multiplayer feels more or less the same, except with a much better interface. I would love to know what store allowed you to return a game with a one time use, online activation key, and a download client ;)
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#5 Drew

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:40 PM

Multiplayer feels more or less the same, except with a much better interface.

I would love to know what store allowed you to return a game with a one time use, online activation key, and a download client ;)


They're a mom and pop, family-owned place nearby. I've shopped almost exclusively there for years, and they know me real well. I returned the game and gave them the account info.

Normally though, I'd see your point.

As for the multiplayer, again, I don't know what it was. Maybe it was the streamlining that threw it off, but I'm so used to the old Starcraft that this one just seemed too... easy, almost.

#6 Niterider

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:44 PM

I gotcha. I'm sure that's against the EULA somehow, but meh. What do you mean by easy?
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#7 Drew

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:48 PM

I gotcha. I'm sure that's against the EULA somehow, but meh.

What do you mean by easy?

Nobody reads that thing anyway.

There was much more micro-management in SC1. You had to deal with individual units as opposed to groups.

Half the time it seemed like I was just sitting around doing nothing in SC2. Maybe I was going about it the wrong way or something, but it almost seemed hollow.

I find that I enjoy CoH much more than I did SC2. I mean, it's not a bad game by any means, but I definitely think that there are superior RTS on the market right now.

#8 Niterider

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:40 PM

Patch 1.1 preview notes.

http://eu.battle.net.../en/blog/554901

Let the LOL's begin.
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#9 Niterider

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 04:07 PM

Patch 1.1 comes out Tuesday, and Blizzard has indicated that nothing will change from the patch notes. Thankfully, they've had some blog posts intended to stir up conversation about Zerg imbalance. Maybe some of the real issues will actually be addressed.
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#10 SharpeWolfe

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 02:35 PM

Pretty sure Terran's OP
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#11 Niterider

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 03:58 PM

They are. The Siege Tank nerf is targeted at high level play, but it seems like Blizzard is ignoring the obvious, that crap players are getting into Diamond simply because they're playing Terran. Until Reapers are removed from the game, either physically or effectively, I seriously doubt the other Terran OP and Zerg UP issues will be addressed. Especially when they're nerfing Battlecruisers, which rarely see play and aren't that effective, over Void Rays, which cause the game to end instantly when you get about 10 of them.
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#12 SharpeWolfe

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 11:18 PM

well, I haven't ever really had an issue with reapers, as any race, Turrets/Spine Crawlers counter them fairly well, and yes, mass Void Rays are damn near impossible to beat, unless you have mass Vikings with upgrades, and I'd imagine corrupters might do well en masse.
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#13 Niterider

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:27 AM

You should watch the tournament game Idra vs. Morrow (Idra is know for being one of the best Zerg players in the world), and I'll post them if I can find them. Basically what happens is Morrow builds early Reapers, which forces Idra to begin building Roaches. As soon as that happens, Morrow swaps immediately to Marauders with no additional tech, and steam rolls the Roach army. With the number of Reapers in play, Spine Crawlers would've helped only minimally. Reapers have bonus damage vs. buildings, so you'd only need 5 Reapers to 2 shot each one, and if you build too many (probably more than 3), you'll lose to Marauders. Build Roaches, and you'll also lose to Marauders. Void Rays aren't a problem in 1v1 or 2v2, but it becomes a real problem 3v3, 4v4, of FFA when allies (or opponents in FFA) and 15 + Photon Cannons at your ramp can buy you enough time to get them. I can handle Carriers and Battlecruisers en masse with Phoenix and Corrupters (I don't play Terran but I imagine Vikings would work pretty well). In fact, building those units practically guarantees that you lose. Void Rays are a different story, which is pathetic as a Tier 2 unit. When the only strategy against a Tier 2 units is "don't let them get that unit" or "don't let that mass of units, which has better movement than it's counters, anywhere near your base," there's a balance problem. I had a 3v3 game like this when I first started playing, but there was another balance factor in play. The Void Rayer's Terran ally left and had lifted off the Command Center, placing it at the edge of the map somewhere. So even though I was preventing the Void Rays from getting into our bases with Stalkers, taking out his base didn't matter. He dragged the game on for something like 30 minutes with those Void Rays because we thought he just had a Nexus hidden somewhere.
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#14 Blaze

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 12:22 PM

You should watch the tournament game Idra vs. Morrow (Idra is know for being one of the best Zerg players in the world), and I'll post them if I can find them. Basically what happens is Morrow builds early Reapers, which forces Idra to begin building Roaches. As soon as that happens, Morrow swaps immediately to Marauders with no additional tech, and steam rolls the Roach army.

I'm subscribed to a commentator's youtube page who covers a lot of pro-level games. I don't have any interest in playing Starcraft nor do I even understand what I'm watching, but I find the pro-level games interesting to watch nonetheless. The Idra vs Morrow games are all here (I can't link to the search results, so search "Idra" + "Morrow" to get the results). I don't know which game is the one you're talking about, but I think they're all there.

#15 Niterider

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 12:39 PM

Thanks Blaze, I found the games in his channel. This game 1 and 2 of 5, but there's no reason to watch any of the others. 3, 4, and 5 are pretty much the same as 1.

Idra vs. Morrow, game 1
Idra vs. Morrow, game 2
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#16 Niterider

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 08:31 AM

Here's Idra's thoughts on Patch 1.1. Surprisingly, it's quite civil. Idra is well known for a ridiculous amount of nerd rage.

Idra on Patch 1.1
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#17 Niterider

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:32 PM

Patch 1.2 Talk

?You can go up and read on the forums at any one time and there are a bunch of different theories about balance and imbalance. We?re being very cautious about making large swinging changes right now because at the highest level things are actually very strong. The things that we?ll probably be addressing are the 2v2 and larger scale games. Ultimately, the 1 to 1 is what we want to keep as sacred as possible, but as a result right now there are some things that we need to address in the 2v2 at the higher level. We?ll be looking at ways to do that without affecting the 1v1 balance.?


Translations: We're going to nerf Void Rays, Reapers, and Cannon Rushes. At least, it'd better.

Actually, Void Rays stopped being a problem for me as soon as I swapped back from Zerg to Protoss. Zerg has a hard time with air units in general, not just Void Rays. Now I just mass Stalkers to deal with them, which is easy to do because I have no queen to kill.

?That?s not actually the case,? says Chris. ?We have fewer Zerg players overall. I avoid playing Zerg as much as possible because I find them to be just more complex in general. Zerg, or rather larvae management is harder for me to deal with, so I don?t enjoy playing them as much.?


Could that be because many traditional Zerg plays have swapped to Terran because of the imbalance?
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#18 JCTucker

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:16 PM

They're a mom and pop, family-owned place nearby. I've shopped almost exclusively there for years, and they know me real well. I returned the game and gave them the account info.

Normally though, I'd see your point.

As for the multiplayer, again, I don't know what it was. Maybe it was the streamlining that threw it off, but I'm so used to the old Starcraft that this one just seemed too... easy, almost.


I think we found Drew's Reach source... Way to give them up, Drew.

#19 Niterider

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 07:18 AM

Balance updates for the next patch.

http://us.battle.net.../en/blog/882511

"Give me a TL;DR version..."

Reapers are dead. Thank goodness.

"Nite, there has to be more than that..."

Sure. Barracks now require a supply depot, significantly delaying Reapers.

Nitros Packs now requires a Factory to research.

Roach range increase.

Fungal Growth now stops Blink.

Increase to the health of Zerg buildings. Just please tell me you won't change the Extractor.

The only thing that wasn't touched on was Void Rays, but those aren't a problem in 1v1 anyway. I'm also concerned that Terran will lose it's early Marine cheese, but I guess that's not always a bad thing. 6-8 Pool might become a problem, though.
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#20 DangerousDave

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:21 PM

I don't really understand the Reaper nerfs, as even in Diamond play I rarely see them used successfully. After the rush, no one touches them; they don't scale well in combat. As for requiring a supply depot, I always build one right before my Barracks anyway, so at least it doesn't impact my play. What's hilarious is that their data shows that Protoss are favored over terran at virtually every level of play, but they're only balancing one axis.


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