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#1 JCTucker

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 07:29 AM

...platform is unnecessary and futile." Because I don't want to bog down the tag/id thread with this discussion, and Drew just simply responded with "false" to the above statement, here's the topic. So, Drew, please explain how the PC is a viable gaming platform? I can't play anything more advanced than Command and Conquer 3 on my PC that I built myself 4.5 years ago for $850 in parts at cost to my employer without scaling down the settings. Why would I drop $500 on a new graphics card, if its compatible with my mobo, which if it's not, then there's another couple hundred... Then I have to reinstall my OS... when I can buy a new console for half that price (if I need a new mobo) every 5 years? The only, and I do mean ONLY, advantage that PC games have is their pricing and distribution model. Which doesn't make a lick of difference if you don't have the latest and greatest hardware to run everything.

Edited by JCTucker, 17 December 2010 - 07:30 AM.


#2 Niterider

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 09:37 AM

So, Drew, please explain how the PC is a viable gaming platform?

I don't want to start a PC/Console war. There's plenty of PC Elitism over at GAF, but I want to point out fact from fiction.

I can't play anything more advanced than Command and Conquer 3 on my PC that I built myself 4.5 years ago for $850 in parts at cost to my employer without scaling down the settings.

The same thing happens on 360, since it's also 4 year old hardware now. The 360 and PS3 have a graphics card equivalent to an Nvidia 7800 (it'll run a better than a PC equivalent due to hardware specific programming, and Cell makes the PS3 run even better if the programmers are good). PC gaming is easily a generation ahead of consoles right now, so anything that's built to run on modern video cards has to be scaled back a lot to run on 360 and PS3.

Why would I drop $500 on a new graphics card

EDIT: Previously, this paragraph made no sense.
There's only a handful of graphics cards that run $500, and those are top of the line cards. You can run just about anything except the high end games at max settings with a card worth $120 like the ATI 5770. For example, ME2 will run at 1080p, 8x AF, Max Quality, 60+ FPS on that card. To compare, the 360 doesn't output anything higher than 720p (we don't know what ME2 actually runs at, but I suspect it's this, and the 360 upscales to 1080p from 720p) and runs ME2 at a locked 30 fps. I don't know for certain the AF or Quality settings of ME2 on 360, but I highly doubt they're maxed.

MW2 runs at something like 540p at 60 fps during low loads on the 360. On average, it's more like 45-50. A decent PC could easily hit 1080p with 60 fps.

I just bought my GTX 460 for $200, and that'll run anything on the market at max settings except the really demanding stuff like Metro 2033, Crysis, and Bad Company 2. Haven't worked with Crysis and Bad Company 2 too much, but I only have to scale back Metro 2033 slightly.

ATI just released their high end 6000 series cards, and those are only in the $300 range.

if its compatible with my mobo, which if it's not, then there's another couple hundred... Then I have to reinstall my OS...
when I can buy a new console for half that price (if I need a new mobo) every 5 years?

There was a switch from AGP to PCI-e about the timeframe you built your computer, so you could be on either depending on the motherboard. Anything you buy new today will be PCI-e. Modern video card, even in SLI/CF, don't come anywhere close to the 16x speed modern PCI-e channels are built with unless you're sporting something like 4 separate video cards, so it's not going away for a while.

The only, and I do mean ONLY, advantage that PC games have is their pricing and distribution model. Which doesn't make a lick of difference if you don't have the latest and greatest hardware to run everything.

It's a hobbyist thing. If you like building computer hardware like me, PC gaming is but one step away. Heck, I had my 9800 GT in my computer for over a year and didn't play anything besides Guild Wars. If you don't care about bolstering graphics, mods, dedicated servers on FPS's, the exclusives, or the control scheme, then there's no reason to put up with PC gaming's headaches and pocketbook drain.

The whole pricing model argument is a joke. Sure, launch games cheaper and the Steam sales are absurdly awesome, but PC gaming hardware is inherently more expensive. You're expected to spend no less than $500 for a modern machine, but those will struggle with high end games.
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#3 Drew

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 05:10 PM

You can build a computer for $500-$800 that will run games ten times better than either of the consoles, in higher resolution, with high image fidelity. That, and the PC is a fantastic gaming platform period, even if you don't have a space computer. Hell, you could probably only ever install Steam and you'd be set forever. Tons of fantastic indie games for super cheap, tons of big-budget titles that go on sale all of the time. Takes the pain out of installing games, you click, you play ten minutes later, that's it. No discs to lose, to install packages to search for, no updates to hunt down. If you can spare the money, and you're a gamer, you need a computer that can play games. Even a moderate one will let you play everything that is out now and tons of games for years. My computer is pushing five years old now, and the only thing I've updated this whole time has been hard drive space and my video card. A single upgrade can carry you a long way.

#4 Jironimo

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 06:31 AM

I agree with Tucker. I enjoy building PCs, but I find the gaming to be much more of a headache than it's worth. Even if you have a moderate system like what Drew is talking about that can run most games better than a console, you'll always come across some install problem or compatibility issue with the OS/graphics card, etc. When I want to play I like to just boot something up and go. The fact that consoles are locked-in and closed makes them much more convenient to me. Granted it would be nice to have many of these games I love in 1080p and 60 fps, after experiencing how amazing H2 is on the PC I can't imagine how awesome Reach would be at this performance levels, but the management of this as my main gaming system is not worth it.

#5 Niterider

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:00 PM

Like I said, if you're willing to put up with the headaches for graphics, mods, servers, exclusives, or control scheme, it's great. Personally, I'm primarily interested in the exclusives. Graphics interest me from a technical standpoint, not as a gaming requirement. Mods only mildly interest me, the other two I couldn't care less about (I swear, anyone uses the "dedicated servers = less lag" argument needs to be shot). One problem I've been running into is running games at a consistent framerate. I really don't care if I can run at 60, 45, or 30, but a framerate that jitters around all the time just bugs me. If I can find a way to lock the framerate, I will.
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#6 Drew

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:17 PM

Dedicated servers = less lag. As long as the game doesn't have terrible netcode, it is always better than using P2P. Not only that, but it removes host advantage from the equation and places everyone on an even playing field. Network exploiters can no longer exploit when playing on a dedicated server, because then the only people they hurt are themselves.

Edited by Drew, 23 December 2010 - 03:18 PM.


#7 Niterider

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:43 PM

Dedicated servers = less lag.

As long as the game doesn't have terrible netcode, it is always better than using P2P. Not only that, but it removes host advantage from the equation and places everyone on an even playing field. Network exploiters can no longer exploit when playing on a dedicated server, because then the only people they hurt are themselves.

You had to push that button, didn't you? Where did I put my .44?

In theory, all that is true. Only in theory, the end result (due to user stupidity for the most part), is that games are just as laggy or worse.
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#8 deftech

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 04:19 AM

Thread hi-jack in progress: I plan on building a new PC within the next few weeks, need advice on a video card since I don't really keep up with the gaming/home use scene. I'm currently looking at the following: i7-2600K cpu asus socket 1155 motherboard 8GB of RAM 80GB solid state drive 600W power supply So with that crap in mind, what should I be looking for GPU wise?

#9 Niterider

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:16 PM

It all depends on your budget, though with a SSD and an i7 that's probably not a big issue. You probably want something in the $150 to $300 range from Newegg or Tiger Direct (never buy in stores, web prices typically have lower baselines with no tax or shipping). I currently run an Nvidia GTX 460 1 gig and it works pretty well. The Nvidia 560 Ti is a solid choice. Make sure you get something with at least 1 gig RAM. If you plan on running Battlefield 3 on it, DICE just released the recommended system requirements, which is a GTX 560 Ti and the Radeon 6950. Brands I would stick with are EVGA and Sappire.
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#10 deftech

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:26 PM

Finally went ahead and made the purchase. Specs changed slightly. I7 2600 Asus socket 1155 motherboard Nvidia GeForce GTX560Ti (1.25GB) 2x 500GB SATA drvies (might setup RAID 0) 700W Power Supply 8GB DDR3 I also bought a new 20in LED monitor. Stoked.

#11 DualX

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:51 PM

Welcome to the club.

#12 Drew

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 02:57 AM

Finally went ahead and made the purchase. Specs changed slightly.

I7 2600
Asus socket 1155 motherboard
Nvidia GeForce GTX560Ti (1.25GB)
2x 500GB SATA drvies (might setup RAID 0)
700W Power Supply
8GB DDR3

I also bought a new 20in LED monitor. Stoked.

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Edited by Drew, 26 November 2011 - 02:57 AM.


#13 Niterider

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:22 AM

And watch them steam sales. Tomorrow is the last day for the thanksgiving sale (where Valve does a recap of the most popular of the previous days sales), and I promise you'll be handing your wallet over to Gabe Newell. The sales they have are insane.
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#14 aander91

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:40 AM

Nvidia GeForce GTX560Ti (1.25GB)


Damn.
I rate this post/Drew.

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#15 deftech

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:04 PM

MASTER RACE

When you install Steam post your ID.


Already have an account, though it's been so long since I've actually used it. I'm fairly sure my ID is defsoldout.

#16 Drew

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:17 PM

Already have an account, though it's been so long since I've actually used it. I'm fairly sure my ID is defsoldout.

Looks like it was before community pages even existed.

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#17 deftech

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 10:27 PM

Looks like it was before community pages even existed.


Done and done.


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