Jump to content


Photo

The Chief's Gauntlets

Halo 3

  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#1 Maj Williams

Maj Williams
  • Member
  • 73 posts
  • Location:CA

Posted 29 April 2008 - 02:33 PM

So I'm a little confused. In regards to MC's gauntlets, I was wondering if Bungie actually gave a reason why there are only 3 holes instead of the normal 5 that were there in Halo 2? He has NOT had time to refit his armor in the jungle. Given that Bungie takes so much pride in their story continuity and realism, I was wondering if they actually gave a reason for this? Or any ideas anyone might have? Also, I really really want to know what happened to the remnants of the covenant fleet and all its members. And the entire Jiralhanae population. And all of the San Shyuum. Also, are the Sangheili (elites) now primarily responsible for their own fleet? Or do they still employ the use of the Huragok (engineers)? How come we never got to see them in the first place in the game? I remember them (engineers) being on the user manual when it was first revealed online... Sorry bunches of questions... hah

#2 Cocopjojo

Cocopjojo
  • Veteran
  • 1,850 posts

Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:11 PM

Unfortunately, the gauntlet issue is just one of those things. In the Halo 3 Announcement FAQ, the question was asked and answered in a way that made it seem as though Bungie had an answer up their sleeves:

Q: I also noticed Master Chief's gloves had changed. Does that mean it's Mjolnir Mark VII?
A: We haven't revealed that yet . Don't jump to any conclusions.


But look at the cover of the first issue of Halo: Uprising.

Posted Image

He has the gauntlets from Halo 3. But Uprising takes place directly after Halo 2. The Chief starts out on the Forerunner Dreadnought. So, unless he kept the extra gauntlets in his pockets, there isn't an explanation.

As far as the status of the rest of the Covenant fleet, your guess is as good as anyone else's. As far as I know, there hasn't been any story information released regarding the timeline after Halo 3. Voc could probably provide some decent speculation, though, based on the events of Halo 3.

And as far as the engineers, I would imagine that they're not in the game because they would only appear on Covenant ships, which would limit them to only appearing in a few levels in course of the three games; plus, they don't fight, so time was better spent on developing new species like Drones and Brutes, who play large roles in the games.

#3 vociferous

vociferous
  • Veteran
  • 3,639 posts

Posted 29 April 2008 - 04:17 PM

Voc could probably provide some decent speculation, though, based on the events of Halo 3.

I'll give some of these a try, but I think you've said as much as I can already.

Like Cocop said, Maj, Bungie has offered no reason for the armor differences in Halo 3, as he is still sporting Mark VI Mjolnir Armor - presumably the exact set he had in Halo 2. I imagine they could pencil in some sort of explanation at this point, but most people have accepted it as an aesthetic change only or simply didn't notice. Like many things in the Halo universe, this might be one you'll have to suspend your disbelief on.

Also, I really really want to know what happened to the remnants of the covenant fleet and all its members. And the entire Jiralhanae population. And all of the San Shyuum. Also, are the Sangheili (elites) now primarily responsible for their own fleet? Or do they still employ the use of the Huragok (engineers)? How come we never got to see them in the first place in the game? I remember them (engineers) being on the user manual when it was first revealed online...

According to Cortana, the Covenant are dead and gone. Whatever was left after the civil war on Delta Halo and High Charity, was present in the large conflict above the Ark. I'd really like to see a game about the events that took place while the Master Chief was on the Ark, getting things ready for the big finale. A game following an Elite or a team of Elites as they waged war in fighters and on foot against the Covenant would be really bad ass - and something I'm going to talk about on the blog in the very near future.

The Jiralhanae and Sangheili, those who still live on their homeworlds (respectively Doisac and Sanghelios), were not directly part of the Covenant, so there's really no telling what they did or would do in the wake of the religion's fall. The only race we know a little about within the Covenant would be the Sangheili race and all that we know is that Rtas 'Vadumee and the Arbiter took what was left of their military contingent and went home. One could imagine some political turmoil upon their arrival since their entire religious system was turned upside down, but that has not been revealed yet. It would make for an interesting game, particularly if you got to play as Half-Jaw.

#4 GhaleonEB

GhaleonEB
  • Member
  • 314 posts

Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:38 PM

I think they just decided three looked cooler than five.

#5 slurpeekilla

slurpeekilla
  • Member
  • 6 posts

Posted 11 May 2008 - 07:15 PM

The Jiralhanae and Sangheili, those who still live on their homeworlds (respectively Doisac and Sanghelios), were not directly part of the Covenant, so there's really no telling what they did or would do in the wake of the religion's fall. The only race we know a little about within the Covenant would be the Sangheili race and all that we know is that Rtas 'Vadumee and the Arbiter took what was left of their military contingent and went home. One could imagine some political turmoil upon their arrival since their entire religious system was turned upside down, but that has not been revealed yet. It would make for an interesting game, particularly if you got to play as Half-Jaw.


The term "Covenant" in regards to that collection of races comes from the original pact between the Prophets and Elites, so the populations of the respective races were indeed part of it. In fact the canon explanation for the Brutes not being in Halo CE was that the Elites had had them barred from the military at that point in time, so even though they weren't directly taking part in the Covenant's military they were still a part of the Covenant. I doubt there would be any turmoil at all for Vadumee and the Arbiter upon their return, as the Sangheili on the whole had a tenuous relationship with the Prophets and outright hatred for the Brutes, and their race as a whole separated from the Covenant. According to Halopedia they brought some unknown amount of Grunts and Hunters with them, but the Hunters returned to the Covenant under threats of their homeworld being glassed and it's never stated why there are no separatist Grunts in Halo 3, maybe they all died in battle. I do certainly think the continued conflict between the Elites and Brutes would be good fodder for another game, as they certainly all couldn't have been killed at the end of Halo 3.

Most of this info is from the books and Halopedia, but some of it is my own speculation as well.

#6 vociferous

vociferous
  • Veteran
  • 3,639 posts

Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:51 AM

The term "Covenant" in regards to that collection of races comes from the original pact between the Prophets and Elites, so the populations of the respective races were indeed part of it.

The races were collectively part of the Covenant as a religious organization and general impetus of the conglomerate, yes, but the Sangheili population still living on Sanghelios was not part of the military forces which composed the Covenant, hence my use of the term "directly" and my association with the Covenant's demise. Obviously the Sangheili who were still on Sanghelios were not killed in the battle above the Ark or adjacent to Delta Halo/High Charity, right?

I doubt there would be any turmoil at all for Vadumee and the Arbiter upon their return, as the Sangheili on the whole had a tenuous relationship with the Prophets and outright hatred for the Brutes, and their race as a whole separated from the Covenant.

According to the Bestiarum, the civil war extended all the way back to Sanghelios and according to Ghost of Onyx, outpost worlds were in contention with the notion of separating from the Covenant. It's very clear that not all Elites supported the schism, which creates an interesting political climate when the Shadow of Intent, carrying the last vestige of Covenant-active Elites, returns.

#7 slurpeekilla

slurpeekilla
  • Member
  • 6 posts

Posted 14 May 2008 - 05:55 PM

The races were collectively part of the Covenant as a religious organization and general impetus of the conglomerate, yes, but the Sangheili population still living on Sanghelios was not part of the military forces which composed the Covenant, hence my use of the term "directly" and my association with the Covenant's demise. Obviously the Sangheili who were still on Sanghelios were not killed in the battle above the Ark or adjacent to Delta Halo/High Charity, right?

According to the Bestiarum, the civil war extended all the way back to Sanghelios and according to Ghost of Onyx, outpost worlds were in contention with the notion of separating from the Covenant. It's very clear that not all Elites supported the schism, which creates an interesting political climate when the Shadow of Intent, carrying the last vestige of Covenant-active Elites, returns.


Good points, it was my understanding though that in the hierarchy of the Covenant, the Prophets ran the religion and the Sangheili ran the military (according to Halopedia their entire culture was based around the military, ancient Sparta style). That's how they were able to repress the Brutes for so long, until the Prophets began making their backdoor deals with the Brutes, elevating them into top positions and starting their secret program of genocide against the Sangheili. It's mostly because of these factors that I assume sooner or later, all of the Sangheili would eventually separate from the Covenant, especially if after the events on the Ark no one was left but them, the Brutes, and whatever was left of the "lesser" races. In fact, doesn't the Arbiter mention that the Covenant has disbanded to Vadumee in the ending to Halo 3? I might be remembering wrong.

I agree the events of the Elites returning to Sanghelios would make for an interesting game. What happened to the Brutes that Vadumee mentions that bugged out before the "Halo" level? Judging from their blind devotion to the Great Journey even in the face of proof that it was false, one could surmise they would continue their quest of Elite genocide even though their masters the Prophets were gone.

Edited by slurpeekilla, 14 May 2008 - 05:56 PM.


#8 Hale 079

Hale 079
  • Member
  • 2 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:49 AM

I actually believe that there would NOT be turmoil when they reach home in Sanghelios. Do any of you have the Ascetic armour permutation? The description described the Ascetics as a branch of troops used in internal crises and for maintaining order. I think that the Elites just carry on with their lives like before the Covenant.

#9 vociferous

vociferous
  • Veteran
  • 3,639 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 05:58 AM

I think that the Elites just carry on with their lives like before the Covenant.

Their core, pre-Covenant religion was based on the belief that the Forerunners were gods. Their species-wide goal pre-Covenant still revolved around finding Forerunner artifacts. This has been proven (to the Arbiter and 'Vadum, as well as their crew) to be a false belief - unfounded and based on lies and misunderstanding. Now that their religious belief system is gone you don't think there will be any turmoil or social issues at all? The destruction of the Covenant and the beliefs that were championed by it would seem to me to have catastrophic effects on the Sangheilian social landscape.

Imagine if tomorrow the world discovered irrefutable evidence that there was no God. All of the folds of modern religion, particularly Christianity, Islam, Judaism would fall into disarray. Now whether or not there is a God really isn't the point, the point is that a rather large some of our planet's population bases their life, their future and security beyond death on the idea that God exists. If that idea is proven to be false, there would likely be a moral fallout of incredible proportions.

#10 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:12 AM

No they wouldn't, Voc. Several cults, err, I'm sorry, "minor religions" have had their founders predict doom and gloom, apocalypse on an arbitrary dates. Those dates come and go, and the cult still exists. People will still believe in something even in the presence of proof that it's false.

#11 Cocopjojo

Cocopjojo
  • Veteran
  • 1,850 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:18 AM

But the point is that the Arbiter, Half-Jaw and all of the other Covenant leaders know that it's false. What if the Pope, the councilmen of the Methodist Church, and the leaders of the Baptist Association, and the leaders of every world religion all presented irrevocable facts to their followers that disproved the existence of god and then disbanded their respective organizations? We're not talking about a prophecy or prediction coming true or not coming true. We're talking about the leaders of a major religion realizing beyond the shadow of a doubt that their religion is false and then reporting that back to their people.

#12 Anpheus

Anpheus
  • Member
  • 226 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:31 AM

And the billion odd Catholics who call themselves Catholic but don't keep up to date on what the Pope says anyway are going to suddenly admit to being wrong all this time? Yeah... hah. Religions are powerful because they give people hope and they encourage groupthink, a mob mentality. You're encouraged to repeat the same damn thing over and over again, sometimes to a strict schedule (Islam,) sometimes when in need (Christianity) but always regularly (all Judeo-Christian faiths have a church.) You're told to read the holy text over and over again, to repeat it aloud or in your thoughts and mull the 'truth.' People who undergo such a regimen do not change their mind easily or at all. Even if they chose to become Christians or Muslims or Forerunner-worshipers in the first place, what takes place afterward can only be called brainwashing.

#13 NJ Shlice

NJ Shlice

    Tonight, we dine in Halo!

  • Veteran
  • 2,051 posts
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:43 AM

Several cults, err, I'm sorry, "minor religions" have had their founders predict doom and gloom, apocalypse on an arbitrary dates. Those dates come and go, and the cult still exists.


You cannot compare a cult or "minor religion" to a religion on the scale of Catholocism or the Covenant's belief in the Forerunners.

You're talking global meltdown.

#14 vociferous

vociferous
  • Veteran
  • 3,639 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:03 AM

Anpheus, don't railroad this discussion into a conversation about religion versus atheism. I knew when I posted it that there would be one particular person on this forum who would see my words and say to themselves: "Ah, an argument! Let me in!" That person was you. If you want to insult peoples' belief structures by referring to them as "cults," the result of "mob mentality" or otherwise, that's fine. Do it on another forum. I know you enjoy antagonism and debate, but such commentary is counterproductive in this discussion. There are other places where people can argue such things. In my above statement, I don't support any belief system. I simply state a fact. Whether atheist, agnostic, deist or otherwise - whatever credo (or anti-credo) - that someone espouses to believe, the reality is that the Covenant population throughout their disparate systems were all (for the most part) extremely fervent followers. It is easily arguable that they were more fervent and devout than any religion we've come to know here on Earth. Everything they did, all of their resources, time, money, property and efforts were devoted to this religion. They may not have even grafted the term "secular" into their Covenant language. Heresy was a crime beyond measure and punished by death. Religion was their life. With that being said, if they were confronted with the facts presented in Halo 3, the religion would be destroyed. This wasn't a simple date on a calendar or something predicted by an evangelical on opium, the events of Halo 3 succinctly end the Forerunner religion. This is why I used the specific terms "irrefutable evidence" and not "could be possibly maybe." If this happened, the Sangheilian belief structure is thrown into a cyclone of controversy. There would be Sangheili still latching onto the broken hope of the Forerunners, Sangheili grasping onto a new system of beliefs and Sangheili who want to rend free from any belief system at all. And in the middle of it: the Arbiter and his fleet, the ones who have returned to give the "good" news. I think there would clearly be some issues with the social structure at this point and I could easily see a civil war happening. Is Bungie going to go in this direction? I have no idea. I think the speculation is clearly reasonable and warranted however.

#15 urk

urk

    Don't tase me, bro!

  • Member
  • 474 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:49 AM

I think they just decided three looked cooler than five.



#16 Cocopjojo

Cocopjojo
  • Veteran
  • 1,850 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 12:54 PM

Like voc said, everything the Sanghieli do is in accordance with their religion. Their entire society is structured around it. Sure, some of them may go on believing that the Arbiter, Half-Jaw, and the rest of the Covenant leadership are lying, but it wouldn't matter. The religion is at its end. The fleets of Sanghieli warships, the excavation ships, the "reclamation" teams - those are all controlled the Sanghieli leaders, who know that the religion is false. Every Sangheili's day-to-day life will be changed, whether they want it to or not.

#17 Self Induced

Self Induced

    My drinking ethics are not for discussing.

  • Member
  • 739 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:22 PM

It is easily arguable that they were more fervent and devout than any religion we've come to know here on Earth. Everything they did, all of their resources, time, money, property and efforts were devoted to this religion.

Mad props.
XBL: Self Induced
(no shit)

#18 Rtas 'Vadum

Rtas 'Vadum

    Shadow of Intent

  • Member
  • 51 posts
  • Location:NC

Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:00 PM

1st post w00t! Anyway I think that a game (or at least a novel) dealing with the Arbiter and Half-Jaw returning to their homeworld would be very interesting indeed. The Governors of Contrition mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx in particular sound as if they would have a very big issue with the Elite leaders rejecting their former religion, and who knows how many other such extremist organizations exist amongst the Elites. Eons of being bound by the Covenant religion will certainly lead to some huge schisms in the after-Covenant cultures of the (remaining) member races, though the Jackals would seem as if they could care less about the religion to begin with and may adapt to the fact quicker than any of the other races. However, what if a few Prophets managed to escape High Charity before it was completely consumed by the flood? They might have sought out still-loyal members of the Covenant to lead. Thats the problem with religions, if one falls apart several former members branch off and form their own(don't take this post the wrong way, as I myself am a strong Christian). But as for the topic yeah I think it was just an ascetic change with little or no real canon explanation needed.

#19 Cocopjojo

Cocopjojo
  • Veteran
  • 1,850 posts

Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:05 PM

The Governors of Contrition mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx in particular sound as if they would have a very big issue with the Elite leaders rejecting their former religion, and who knows how many other such extremist organizations exist amongst the Elites.

Yeah, I would be very interested in seeing how they deal with what the Arbiter and Half-Jaw have to say once they get home.

#20 Paavi

Paavi

    The Pope

  • Member
  • 33 posts
  • Location:Kokkola, Finland

Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:42 PM

Yeah, I would be very interested in seeing how they deal with what the Arbiter and Half-Jaw have to say once they get home.


Completely OT, but I think it would be cool to see how the heretic leader (the one whom Arbiter killed in Halo 2) became a "heretic". Was it a longer process or did he just realize "OK, prophets are bad, I hate them! I must become a heretic, heretic (imagine the Staten grunt voice)!"

Edited by Paavi, 22 May 2008 - 09:42 PM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Halo 3

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq