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The Halo 3 Review Thread

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#41 Syracuse022

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 08:13 PM

First off, nice job with quickshade. I've been waiting (I'll admit - with cold hard malice in my heart) ever since he compared me to an xbox.com user. He just had too many y's in wrong places, and poor Cortana does not deserve to be called by a name that recalls cerveza con limon. Ever. Anyways, I hope I didn't offend you by calling you out like that. I'm just sort of surprised by the quick 180s a number of our huge Halo fans have been making (Um... what the hell, Drew?), and I was trying to get to the bottom of it. I'm still not sure if I'm just missing something or what, but I'm really not nearly as disappointed with the game as some people have been professing to be, and I thought I was supposed to be the cynical asshole... As far as multiplayer maps - for the most part, I feel like most of the broken ones can be fixed with some intelligent, focused Forge tweaking. I know you didn't think Snowbound was broken to begin with, but I can't stand playing on that map with the default set-up. However, I really feel like I made a definitive (uh-oh hype) version of the map today, so I can't wait for you and the others to get a chance to play it. Campaign - The linearity and (relatively, when compared with our fanboy imaginations) meager scale of Campaign were things that I noticed, but I guess I'm just not as disapponted as you were. Halo's encounters don't work if you're assaulted by too many heavy vehicles or enemies at once. Even the 'huge' encounters in the game (the Brute encounter on Tsavo Highway and the Wraith encounter later in the same level come readily to mind) use spacing in intelligent ways to make sure you're only fighting a few enemies at a time. Halo weapons simply can't help you cut through a REAL tank squadron with 20 tanks and infantry support. Bungie's challenge, then, was making it feel like you were accomplishing large scale things like that with weapons that were built for smaller scale encounters. I don't know if you've ever played the Rockslide Megabattle on Halo 1 - if you haven't, you're missing out, search halo.bungie.org for it - but that battle featured just as many enemies as I ever saw on screen in Halo 3. Does that disappoint me, though? Not really. The only way to win that battle was to compartmentalize your fighting so that you were only engaging a few enemies at a time. Halo's combat just can't scale up to 'epic, large scale warfare' with its current gameplay mechanics. It's too bad, but I just don't see epic encounters like the (admittedly awesome) ones you suggested ever happening in a Halo game that hasn't been just completely reworked from the ground up. Anyways, I hope that clarifies my position on our two main disagreements. And the melee system can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, so we agree perfectly there. Sorry to insult your intelligence with the 'Cuse rants' comparison - it wasn't particularly apt, especially if Halo 3 is your favorite game ever.

#42 Drew

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 09:12 PM

What? That doesn't sound like an "infinity/10" post.

I know, explanation below.

And WOW, Drew, that's quite a turn around. Do you remember how you initially reviewed this game?

I do. Much of that still holds true. It's still one of the best games I've ever played, right up there with Halo 1 (and, to a lesser extent, Halo 2). After the high subsided, some of the flaws became more defined than they were with my first week or so with the game. It's fantastic in every sense of the word, it just didn't live up to my internal expectations and those Bungie set for the game (in my mind, anyway). I just spent another eight hours today playing through the campaign alone, and if that's any indication at all (I've already lost count of how many times I've played campaign through and through), this game is amazing.

Almost all of the faults that I've found with the game have been outlined by you, Voc, and Valor. However, despite the flaws, I will be playing this game regularly for years, even if I go off and play The Orange Box (or some other game) for a few days, I'll always end coming back to Halo 3. The campaign, while not as non-linear as Halo 1's, is a million times better than Halo 2's, and still holds many hours for me. The multiplayer, while initially appearing flawed as far as maps go, can be fixed, as you said, with a little thought and a lot of time. There's also DLC. To what capacity Bungie will exploit this, we don't know yet, but it still has the potential to add truly classic maps and unique Forge items to the sandbox.

Anyway, Halo 3 is probably my number one game ever, better as an overall package than Halo 1 and holding the potential to be my biggest electronic timesink yet. It's got its problems, but hey, every game does. My previous post was just a dedicated fan looking at things after he'd spent some time with the game. Sorry for making it seem like it just started snowing in hell. ;)

Edited by Drew, 20 October 2007 - 09:13 PM.


#43 mattacus

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 04:07 AM

It gives me a headache to read your posts. I've spent the last two years promoting Bungie and Halo 3 without fail, I don't need some kid who is performing e-cunninglus (sic/accurately metaphoric) on Bungie's ego trying to tell me what I should or should not have expected.



Not to sidetrack the discussion, but what is the realworld antecedent of Bungie's e-vagina?

Edited by mattacus, 21 October 2007 - 04:09 AM.


#44 Cocopjojo

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 05:34 AM

So, I've been playing through the game on Legendary by myself (I feel bad that I haven't done that, yet) and I'm being reminded all over again as to why this game is awesome.

Literally every fifteen seconds something awesome happens while playing. I honestly think that Bungie has done a lot - a heck of a lot - in this game that gets overlooked. I'm just going to list a few things that have happened over the past few levels that I thought were really cool. I'm actually a little embarassed that I've never noticed some of this stuff.
  • One of my favorite things about this game has got to be the dialogue. The Elites are such fantastic characters and everything they say is pretty much gold. I love the part on Floodgate (which was actually a ton of fun on Legendary, due almost entirely to the fact that Flood can now be headshotted), when the Elites' Shadow of Intent carrier arrives. I had never noticed that when the drop pods come down, the Arbiter runs over to the commander officer and says, "what news, brother?" The Elite responds with the story of how High Charity has fallen to the Flood. He says that they were attempting to destroy the Flood, but that an infected carrier broke through and made the jump to Earth. The Elites sent a few ships to follow. The Arbiter remarks, "but brother, we had a fleet numbering in the hundreds!" and the Elite closes with a comment about how deadly the Flood were. I had never heard this exchange between the two because I had always moved ahead to fight. The entire conversation was really cool.
  • I once saw the Arbiter kick a crate out of his way instead of walking around it. He just booted it out of the way. The Arbiter is easily my favorite character from the series. He's such a bad dude. I love seeing him fight - when his shields begin to flicker, he'll whip out that sword and give that battle cry: "auuughhhh!!" and start slicing through fools.
  • On The Ark, right after you, 343 and the Arbiter open up the galaxy map and the Brutes arrive, you hear Johnson tell you to head back inside while he handles the air assualt. The Arbiter says that he'll help, too, and he leaps into the air and jacks a Banshee that was flying too low. It's so sweet.
  • At the end of the galaxy map cutscene, 343 notices something and says, "oh, my," but then you get interrupted by the Brute assault. That's the moment when he first starts to suspect that another installation has been under construction. I had never noticed that he continues to talk about this while you're heading back inside. He's mumbling to himself, saying stuff like, "oh, my. This is quite interesting! Is it possible that...? No, no, I must not jump to conclusions! I require more facts."
  • At the beginning of The Ark, right when you come out into the area that the UNSC fighter jet crashes, there's a downed Pelican (where you get the rockets to blow up the Prowlers). If you sit next to the Pelican for a while you can hear Miranda and Half-Jaw coordinating the space battle. "At 24, 36, a carrier firing on your port side!" "I'll take it out!" "Too late, I've got it!" "Fighters launched, heading for your forward ship!" "Can you clear them up for me?" Stuff like that. There might have been more; I need to go into Saved Films and see what else is said.
  • Just a few moments later, after the next vehicle encounter, you come across a downed Phantom and you can do the same thing here - listen to Brutes coordinating their side of the attack. It's less coordination and more "if you fail to destroy that ship, underling, the Prophets will be the least of your worries! I'll skin you alive!" It was all comments like that. I thought the differences between the two sides were awesome. The Brute broadcasting in the Phantom also makes a comment about "that heretic Half-Jaw," which is the only time I know of his name being used in the game.
  • I can't remember exactly when it was said - I think maybe when the Dawn lands to drop off the tanks - but I remember a comment to the effect of "the Brute fleet lies in ruin," and it was said by an Elite. I need to find exactly where it was said and by whom, but I think that was the turning point of the overalll battle - the Elites' defeat of the Brute fleet in orbit above the Ark, during that level. Which is why you don't encounter an insane amount of resistance during the final battle on The Covenant. While I would have rather had an epicly epic battle, this comment coupled with the opening cutscene of The Ark where the Elites are preparing to battle, and along with the transmissions that I heard during the battle - it at least goes a little way towards making it okay that I wasn't involved. I was on my own mission - getting to the map room - and the Elites were handling the Covenant Fleet.
I need to replay the first few levels and make some notes on them, too. It was just this morning that I played through Floodgate and The Ark, and I still feel like I'm forgetting stuff. If there's one thing that I really enjoyed, it was listening to the Arbiter. Everything that he says is awesome.

Looking at it from the outside - talking in lobbies and posting on here, it's easy to say "it's Halo and they had double the budget of any other game, so why wasn't this game the biggest, most insane thing we've ever played?" And that makes sense. It's a valid complaint. Yes, looking at the game from the outside, it's not as epic as I thought it would be. But while actually playing it, while listening to the dialogue, battling the scarabs, and fighting hordes of Brutes - I honestly couldn't care any less about what it "could have been." It's so much fun. And the game as a whole is a really satisfying conclusion to the story, in my opinion. Sure, lots of things could have been done differently (better? eh.), and I can tell that a lot of story elements have been simplified and left out to help the casual player follow what's going on - but again, I, personally, couldn't care less. It's so much fun and it's so great to finally get back to these amazing characters - the Chief, the Arbiter, the Elites, Johnson and Cortana. And you guys have got to admit that there is a massive amount of fanservice in the game - all of the bulleted things I listed, as well as a billion other things: Red vs. Blue dialogue in Crow's Nest, Cortana's "Halsey comments," random bits of dialogue like the Monitor's "I told you to upgrade your combat skin!" remark.

I'm completely satisfied - MORE than satisfied - with the game.

#45 urk

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 07:07 AM

[*]I can't remember exactly when it was said - I think maybe when the Dawn lands to drop off the tanks - but I remember a comment to the effect of "the Brute fleet lies in ruin," and it was said by an Elite.

Nice overall impressions, homey. I really love the way Bungie weaves so much into the fabric of the game and lets player dictate when and where (and even if) they will absorb it.

I really like the bits with the Elite forces tackling the Brutes. Not only does it further the idea of the Prophet of Truth's ironic hubris, but it also squares nicely with what little we know of the Elites history as the primary muscle used to pummel and beat the Covenant into existence. Knowing their prestige as warriors, it's no surprise that they would decimate the Brute forces, especially when we see the Brutes as well, brutes, and not the cunning strategists the Sangheili are known to be. On that note, I really love the image of Half-Jaw helming his ship, leaning over the arm of the command chair in contemplation. Awesome.

I'd be really interested in the back story of the Elite's submission to the Prophets.

#46 NJ Shlice

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 07:34 AM

I'd be really interested in the back story of the Elite's submission to the Prophets.


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#47 Cocopjojo

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 07:38 AM

On that note, I really love the image of Half-Jaw helming his ship, leaning over the arm of the command chair in contemplation. Awesome.

I'd be really interested in the back story of the Elite's submission to the Prophets.

Agreed, on both of these points. I really hope that the Arbiter and Half-Jaw's final exchange regarding their homeworld is a precursor of something yet to come.

And I found the part where Half-Jaw announces that Truth's fleet lies in ruins. We've all heard it, it's right after you blow up the Scarab. A shame that we couldn't be involved, but like I said, I understand that the Chief has to hunt down Truth. Maybe in Halo 4: Dark Planetoid Rising, we get to play as Half-Jaw and fight that space battle.

And I just finished rewatching the desert Scarab battle. Amazingly epic.

#48 Jironimo

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 01:55 PM

All of this is fuckin sick!

#49 Nightshade

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 02:13 PM

I really think we should have gotten to fight beside Half-Jaw just like in Halo 2. Even if none of you remember, he was a great character in Halo 2. The first cutscene you see him in where he talks to the Arbiter is awesome. "But these are my elites, their lives matter to me... Yours does not."

#50 Frost

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 09:39 PM

So, I've been playing through the game on Legendary by myself (I feel bad that I haven't done that, yet) and I'm being reminded all over again as to why this game is awesome.

I've been doing the same myself, and like you, I've been gaining a new respect for some of the plot intricacies. There's even foreshadowing for Spark's big betrayal, with your aforementioned muttering and also the way he zaps a marine who approaches a door he is attempting to open. I also read the actual transcripts from the game, and found a ton of dialogue that I had missed, all of which really helped to detail the plot.

Good stuff. :thumbsup:

#51 Cocopjojo

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:45 AM

I just finished Cortana on Legendary. It wasn't even a tenth as hard as I thought it'd be. There were maybe three sections that I got stuck on, but other than that it was pretty standard Legendary difficulty. I would run until I couldn't run any more, take out whoever was stopping me, and then run again. Taking time to slow down and crouch in corridors that seemed fit for checkpoints. It really wasn't bad at all. And this level holds one of the best Halo moments ever - when you're almost at the end of the level and resistance is starting to increase, Cortana says, "I'm picking up a friend contact! But who would be crazy enough to come in here?" And you round the corner and there's the Arbiter, standing on top of a ridge with a flamethrower going to town on the Flood. So fantastic.

I think I've told some of you this before, but man, I love the matte paintings at the end. I'm sure they did it because they didn't want to spend weeks creating an massive setpiece just to be used in the background of a fifteen second cutscene. But the matte paintings work really well, in my opinion. It's near the end of the game, the Covenant have been defeated, and things have taken on (IMO) a bit of a somber, more slowed-down mood. And the music and matte paintings refelct that so well.

Also, Marty's music cannot be praised enough. It's beyond perfect.

#52 DualX

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:03 AM

I still need to complete the game on Legendary myself. To be honest, I haven't even completed the game without co-op. It seems like every time I try to start it, I'm always invited into the multiplayer lobby. :pinch: Are there any singleplayer moments that only happen when you are playing it by yourself aside from doing co-op?

#53 Va1or

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:05 AM

I still need to complete the game on Legendary myself. To be honest, I haven't even completed the game without co-op. It seems like every time I try to start it, I'm always invited into the multiplayer lobby. :pinch:

Are there any singleplayer moments that only happen when you are playing it by yourself aside from doing co-op?


I don't think so.

#54 DualX

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:12 AM

Well I beg to differ, I mean I don't exactly remember this portion (read below) especially since the Arbitor is always with you even up to that point and time so it wouldn't make sense for her to say that.

And this level holds one of the best Halo moments ever - when you're almost at the end of the level and resistance is starting to increase, Cortana says, "I'm picking up a friend contact! But who would be crazy enough to come in here?" And you round the corner and there's the Arbiter, standing on top of a ridge with a flamethrower going to town on the Flood.


Edited by DualX2, 15 January 2008 - 08:13 AM.


#55 Cocopjojo

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:42 AM

Yeah, I would say that the game is a lot different when you're playing by yourself. A lot of dialogue occurs that wouldn't occur otherwise and, like I've said, the dialogue is one of the best parts of the game, in my opinion. And like the situation that you just quoted, any time the Arbiter is supposed to be somewhere in solo, he won't appear there in co-op (since he's with you already). I think there may only be two or three moments like that, and they don't amount to anything in the long run, but it still makes the game that much cooler. Besides the moment that I named in Cortana, there is also the time I named in my first post where the Arbiter jacks a Banshee on The Ark. And on the last level when you exit the control room after the Halo starts to fire, the Arbiter leaps about two hundred feet through the air to get up to the snow ridge to the right. It's all little stuff like that, but to me it's worth experiencing.

I just finished the last level, Halo. I think at this point it is safe to say that Halo 3 has a lot more fun and memorable moments than either Halo 1 or Halo 2. Halo 1's campaign will always be meaningful to me for the nostalgic factor, but if I could only play one of them for the rest of my life, Halo 3 would win, hands down. That's almost to be expected, considering the difference in technology and the amount of experience that was put into making Halo 1, it having been made seven years ago. I could go on and on about how great Halo 1's campaign is (and how I don't think that it could possibly have been done any better for its time), but I could certainly go on for longer about how great Halo 3's campaign is.

Let me also say that the opening to the last level is probably my favorite opening to any Halo level. The image of the Pelican flying across that matte painting, and then down into the snow... and then (and this is mostly why I love it) the music that plays as you're walking through the snow with the Arbiter. It's just perfect. And then coming over that ridge to see the control room ahead. Game over. Cut off your system and go cry yourself to sleep.

EDIT: Also, I don't know if anyone's ever noticed, but when Johnson hands you the Laser to take out the Monitor, it has a non-depleting charge of 77 left. : )

Edited by Cocopjojo, 15 January 2008 - 08:46 AM.


#56 Va1or

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:43 AM

Cocop,

I henceforth dub thee a 4-star general in the Halo 3 Defense Force. Answerable only to Supreme Commander Ivanjrn. May the battle go well my son.

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Edited by Va1or, 15 January 2008 - 09:48 AM.


#57 Jironimo

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:25 PM

That's right sucka. Jironimo = 5 Star General with Flaming head and Reconz of the H3DF! btw, love the new gamerpic Valll00000000rrrrrr

#58 Plankton

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 01:44 AM

Even if none of you remember, he was a great character in Halo 2. The first cutscene you see him in where he talks to the Arbiter is awesome. "But these are my elites, their lives matter to me... Yours does not."

Silly Chops was my favourite character in Halo 2. He's such a dude.

Also, I don't know if anyone's ever noticed, but when Johnson hands you the Laser to take out the Monitor, it has a non-depleting charge of 77 left. : )


Also, if you 'kill' Sarge before hand you can get infinite Spartan Lasers from him - his first usually has a single shot, but the rest should have infinite ammo. I've also managed to glitch the game by killing him a lot so he spawns with you after the cutscene in which he dies :) Couldn't get him back outside of the corridors though so no epic Hog run with Sarge, but it was still pretty funny.

#59 borderpatr01

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 12:56 PM

Honestly halo 3 is a good game but it doesnt even compare to halo2...

Edited by borderpatr01, 23 May 2008 - 01:05 PM.


#60 Nightshade

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 01:11 PM

Honestly halo 3 is a good game but it doesnt even compare to halo2...

First off, this is makes me want to kill you.

Secondly, was it really necessary to revive this topic just to say that?



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