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#81 phreak

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:19 PM

It saddens me to see people defending this "new gameplay" stuff in Halo 5. Nightshade just explained why. They tried something new and stuck with it. Halo did fine until they tried to change things completely, trying to be something it isn't instead of embracing what it is. This sprinting and ADS doesn't make Halo, Halo. The core gameplay is fine and it still really does hold up. And again, their reasons are not justifiable when their last game died the way it did when they tried this shit the first time. "These new gamers" are what's ruining Halo if that's what 343 is really depending upon for this new trilogy.

I'm not trying to defend anything other than the nation of let's tap the brakes a little bit. We've literally seen seconds of gameplay. 



#82 Crucified

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:23 PM

Yeah I'm not defending this either.

#83 DualX

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:26 PM

You're on the side of "Hey, this might actually be a good thing." Guess that means you're not defending it, right?

Well it is totally different for sure, but that pace is really interesting.

 

If they can differentiate it from CoD, I'm interested.

I'm also including everyone else that I've seen online defending it as well.


Edited by DualX, 09 November 2014 - 08:27 PM.


#84 Nightshade

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:27 PM

I'm not trying to defend anything other than the nation of let's tap the brakes a little bit. We've literally seen seconds of gameplay. 

This is the exact same strategy they tried when they unveiled Halo 4. Everyone just said wait and see, it'll be good just stop complaining. It turned out to be dog-shit just like everyone thought. 343i had to come out swinging for the fucking fences if they wanted to win people back this time around. It needed to be almost impossibly flawless from the beginning of anything being shown because they now have to earn trust back. Fool me once 343i, shame on you. You won't be fooling me again.

They don't deserve my optimism. And I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt. They've done nothing to deserve it and they've repeatedly lied to us.



#85 phreak

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:33 PM

Dual, I think all me and Cruc mean is we aren't saying this is necessarily a good thing, or even a bad thing. It's just something that is happening and we'll see how it turns out. You should know I'm not a Halo apologist (no digs no digs), and  I'm not trying to defend their decisions. They can make a mess of the game without my help.

 

Nightside, That's fair.

 

Here's a different line of thought. What do you guys think they should have done with H5 that would have updated the classic formula without simply rereleasing 2 or 3 with new maps and a new paint job (we get that tomorrow by the way, and maybe H3A in 3 years)?


Edited by phreak, 09 November 2014 - 08:37 PM.


#86 Nightshade

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:39 PM

Make a competitive game with exploration into a precision starting weapon that has a skill gap. Every Halo game ultimately went to BR starts in Halo 2 & 3 after a while. Halo 4 flirted with the idea of having several loadouts to choose from which again gravitated towards precision. Why not make a game that starts out from "okay the BR is our starting player weapon. Whats a map look like with that as a constant?" They could've looked into increasing the base speed of player movement, rather than including a sprint. This is a massive change in that players still move faster, yet there's no animation trade off where you get smoked by the guy who wasn't sprinting. 

I'm no game designer. But there's plenty of avenues to go down that don't involve just outright theft. 



#87 DualX

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 09:02 PM

Yeah, sprinting just doesn't make sense with a higher time to kill because you can just duck behind a wall when you get hit. These guys should have been focusing on new and interesting vehicles, weapons, and most importantly awesome map pacing and design. I'd prefer they eliminate lunge melee altogether though. Perhaps change up the way melee even works in the game, create a combo system that would be more interesting instead of being locked in a close quarters awkward 1 on 1 single hit lunge attack to the death. I haven't read the books, but I'm sure there are other more interesting actual Spartan things they can use in place of ADS and sprint if they want to truly evolve the series.


Edited by DualX, 09 November 2014 - 09:49 PM.


#88 Jironimo

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:59 AM

I'm the biggest Halo Apologist out there, and I'm serious when I say that if things stay as they look this is in fact a disaster.

ADS is not Halo, it works in other games but not in Halo because it fundamentally does not go with the mechanics and formula which makes Halo special. This Frankenstein version of ADS is actually a big change. You have an animation to zoom in for example, and an obstructed view. Sprint changes the game drastically for the worse as well.

Where's Drew and his hyperbole when I actually want it?

#89 JCTucker

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:16 AM

I'm the biggest Halo Apologist out there, and I'm serious when I say that if things stay as they look this is in fact a disaster.

ADS is not Halo, it works in other games but not in Halo because it fundamentally does not go with the mechanics and formula which makes Halo special. This Frankenstein version of ADS is actually a big change. You have an animation to zoom in for example, and an obstructed view. Sprint changes the game drastically for the worse as well.

Where's Drew and his hyperbole when I actually want it?

 

My God.  If this got the Drew treatment....

 

It's already apocalyptic.

 

Here's my $.02:

 

"Zooming" is not "ADS."  Aiming Down Sight involves gun movement, requires animation, etc.  So, please get that straight.  What happened in previous Halos was "zooming."  This is straight ADS from every other generic modern shooter.  One key component of having an ADS mechanic is a fast TTK.  ADS increases accuracy, but there's a time penalty involved, and in TTK, time is everything. 

 

Halo's hallmark has been the tiered shield/health system, which gives a high TTK.

 

It's why constant Sprint didn't work with Halo 4.  When I have to get 4 BR bursts on target to kill, sprinting makes that impossible. 

 

The "story" of Halo zoom has basically always been "it's tied into the optics of the Spartan."  It's why there's no scope on the Halo 1 pistol.  Why you can achieve the same zoom with any other weapon minus the ability to fire. 

 

It's abundantly clear that whoever is making these decisions has zero idea what makes Halo, "HALO."



#90 phreak

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:55 AM

Alright alright alright.

 

I'm mostly playing devil's advocate. I suspect it won't be great, but still hopeful that a new approach can revive the franchise.

 

We'll know more tonight with Halofest event. I can never be too mad with 343 due to the mcc.



#91 JCTucker

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 10:32 AM

Alright alright alright.

 

I'm mostly playing devil's advocate. I suspect it won't be great, but still hopeful that a new approach can revive the franchise.

 

We'll know more tonight with Halofest event. I can never be too mad with 343 due to the mcc.

 

MCC is literally telling the story of Locke "documenting" the chief's exploits. 

 

Now, points for coolness.  That's an awesomely meta idea.

 

Apparently, Locke has ALL THE P's.



#92 Syracuse022

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 02:46 PM

Bros. Phreak kind of already said it, but tonight we can all play Halo 1 online. Whenever the fuck we want. Take a laissez-faire approach to Halo 5 and live in the now. The glorious now where Halo 1 is pinned to your Xbox One home screen and online-enabled.



#93 Syracuse022

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 02:47 PM

yIvxgoD.gif



#94 Jironimo

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 04:57 PM

H1 online is the Holy Grail we've always wished for. 343 can go bankrupt now for all I care.

#95 Nightshade

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:45 PM

A bit of official PR information leaked early.

First line from the piece that has since been taken down: "Players will notice quite quickly that first-person shooter mechanics not far removed from Call of Duty have drawn the competitive game just a little closer to the kind of quick reflexes and accuracy normally associated with aiming down sights religiously."

lol



#96 JCTucker

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:03 PM

BULLSHIT

#97 Nightshade

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:24 PM

Got to fucking love 343i. "Hey so we made Coagulation significantly browner because we found in playtesting that red team would blend in slightly."

Then look at this:

1415641797-halo-5-guardians-multiplayer-

Did they fucking forget about that when they made the floor of the map a deep blueish/black? Don't they know those colors blend? Did they even fucking think about the fact that red and blue wont be the same to spot if you're above them looking down with a floor like that? What about the fact the game is rumored to have a jetpack-esque thruster pack that would likely put players in more vertical locations and thus having to look down at players more?

Oh wait, know what's more likely? The whole Coagthing was probably just a lie because that's exactly what 343i does. 


Edited by Nightshade, 10 November 2014 - 07:25 PM.


#98 Nightshade

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 07:29 PM

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#99 phreak

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:01 PM

H5 stream

 

http://www.xbox.com/...s/halo/halofest



#100 phreak

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:24 PM

Shields do not recharge when sprinting.


Edited by phreak, 10 November 2014 - 08:24 PM.




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