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Legendary Map Pack

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#21 vociferous

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:06 PM

Nice.

#22 Nightshade

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:33 PM

Very nice.

#23 Va1or

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 01:47 PM

I'm gonna sound like a hater, but it looks like just another generic damaged/ruined structure in the middle of the jungle/woods. Nothing looks particularly cool or Halo or sci-fi about it. It's pretty though.

Edit:

"fragmented ruins of a small 24th century water purification complex."

Then why does it look like a building from 1980? Why does Bungie think that cars and buildings will look almost exactly the same in a few hundred years? Is this just lazy design, a lack a creativity or some kind of retro-future preference in style? Let's face it, it's a lot easier to come up with a brick, modern blown up building and pass it off as 24th century than it is to actually brainstorm as to what a water purification complex might look like in a few hundred years.

I mean, remember the trucks on Turf? Will transport trucks look anything remotely like that in hundreds of years? No. I think it's just lazy.

Edited by Va1or, 21 February 2008 - 01:57 PM.


#24 Drew

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 03:08 PM

It looks gorgeous. Can't wait to see the Lockout remake.

#25 mattacus

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 06:05 PM

I can haz Gears of War themed levelz now, plz?

#26 Va1or

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 06:07 PM

I can haz Gears of War themed levelz now, plz?


I was reminded on GoW when I saw this image as well:

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#27 Cocopjojo

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 06:08 PM

It reminds me of Arcadia from BioShock.

#28 Kinetic

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:05 PM

It reminds me of something awesome.

#29 Nightshade

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:28 PM

Hammer of Dawn in Halo 3 = Win. Also, the "C" in MA5C should be "Chainsaw".

#30 Self Induced

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 07:55 PM

I mean, remember the trucks on Turf? Will transport trucks look anything remotely like that in hundreds of years? No. I think it's just lazy.

While nobody can accurately predict what future tech will look like (and certainly not Bungie employees), these designs of "24th century" buildings do look remarkably uninspired and they could have really poured some artistic creativity in them. The functionality side of things (like guns and vehicles) remain less than what they could be for gameplay reasons, sure, but I don't see why they couldn't have a really streamlined, advanced, futuristic-looking facility being overrun with Kudzoo instead of a 18th century papermill.

I wouldn't call it lazy, because it looks like they did a good job with the level. It just looks really uninspired.
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#31 Jironimo

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 11:22 PM

Then why does it look like a building from 1980? Why does Bungie think that cars and buildings will look almost exactly the same in a few hundred years? Is this just lazy design, a lack a creativity or some kind of retro-future preference in style? Let's face it, it's a lot easier to come up with a brick, modern blown up building and pass it off as 24th century than it is to actually brainstorm as to what a water purification complex might look like in a few hundred years.

Yeah, you're definitely hatin' Valor. I think maybe you're jealous cuz you won't get to play it :tongue:. The most important thing though is that it looks like a good play space. Not to mention it's Africa, by the time it's 2380 it'll finally look like 1980 over there. I think the vegetation is very beautiful and the lighting is awesome just like on Sierra 117.

#32 Va1or

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 03:03 AM

I think maybe you're jealous cuz you won't get to play it.


I thought you'd say something like this. Nobody can have a legitimate critique about Halo 3, right? Yeah, we've been here before. Besides, I still have my 360 and could easily wait to sell it until I got "to play it." I just don't care enough about Halo 3 anymore to get really excited about a generic looking map. I said it looks pretty, just kind of generic. That map could be in Gears, "Counter-Strike" (as they nicknamed it) or a thousand other games. Maybe it's buckets of fun to play, I dunno.

I'll try to restrain any critical thoughts of Halo 3 from now on so I don't get your H3DF fan boy feathers ruffled.

#33 vociferous

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:00 AM

Well, I don't think it's an ugly map. One of my main problems with Halo 3 was that the default maps didn't have enough character. They felt far too drab: Construct, Epitaph, Narrows, The Pit and Sandtrap. On the other hand, Isolation is probably the best looking map for me and it doesn't play that great. The good things about this map are the stone textures, the walkways, the greenery and the concrete structures - good, simply for the fact that they remind me of Sanctuary. You guys are going to have fun when this thing comes out, but yeah, hopefully it comes out with some sort of Lockout remake.

#34 NJ Shlice

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:24 AM

I think it looks cool. I don't think it looks very "Halo" but neither did Sanctuary. I actually think it looks Call of Duty-ish in its rundown building structure. I think it's gonna play awesome. Can't wait.

#35 Kinetic

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:55 AM

The interior looks like it'll be a nice little hell hole. Outside though, it looks quite boring.

#36 Hopdaddy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:01 AM

The interior looks like it'll be a nice little hell hole. Outside though, it looks quite boring.



Don't worry!

There's a mongoose outside! :thumbsup: </sarcasm>

#37 vociferous

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:07 PM

Not very much talk going on here, so I thought I'd add my two cents (per word). Talked to Cocop the other night about this and we think it's nearly a forgone conclusion about the other two pieces of the puzzle of what's coming in the next drop of downloadable content. I could be wrong, but I think in no uncertain terms that the next two maps will be Halo remakes, in particular, remakes of Lockout and Sidewinder.

For now, the only map we’re revealing is Ghost Town, inevitably we’ll have more on Moonlight Sonata and Cotton Ball in the foreseeable future. [BWU - 02/22/2008]

Why do I think that? Well a number of reasons, but we'll start with this one...

So the good news is that as far as I am concerned, all of the projected DLC maps are sweet. Two of them in particular will cause a Three Mile Island scale pant-fill-disaster in the Halo community. I can’t say why, but some of you will figure it out correctly and be able to say I told you so later. [BWU - 10/26/2007]

Secondly, these are the only two consistently-lauded, historically-touted and legendarily-applauded (superlatives stated, not implied) Halo multiplayer maps which have yet to be rebuilt. We've already had revisions of Blood Gulch, Battle Creek, Derelict, Hang 'em High and Zanzibar. These two remaining maps, for most Halo fans, are part of the last vestige (if not being it, themselves) of multiplayer maps which fans would like to see return. Sure there are a few others, but these two would be near the top of most fans' lists.

Another reason or reasons, I should say, are the actual descriptions for each map:

For example, Moonlight Sonata was a map they were apparently holding out for the Fall DLC, but because of delays with a map they were going to launch in the Legendary Map Pack, it's been brought to the forefront. Frank has already made claim that this map will be "universally adored." [BWU - 02/01/2008]

I'm not validating his claims, because I've never seen the map, but the only map which I believe can be considered universally adored (nearly at least), is Lockout. I honestly don't think any other Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo 2 or Halo 3 maps have ever competed with the volume of popularity that Lockout has. For this reason, the assumption of universal adoration isn't necessarily far-fetched.

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On top of that claim, last week, the description of Moonlight Sonata read like a nearly identical description of Lockout.

At long last, we tracked down a build of "Moonlight Sonata" that had received some lighting. Sure, there have been builds with this lighting for a while, but us finally uncovering it was this week's magical moment. For ages and ages and ages it's been a black, barely illuminated, series of interconnected platforms, but now a gentle glow warms this otherwise chilly, isolated structure. [BWU - 02/15/2008]

So except for the "gentle glow" which "warms," this structure seems like a very literal description of Lockout - perhaps this time with a bit sunnier perspective. Further confirmation in the same article indicates that what lies below the structure is "far different from a lush jungle." Not surprising to fans of Lockout, as the multi-tiered structure of platforms was a Flood laboratory set into the undercarriage of the vast frigid mountain ranges on Installation 05, Delta Halo.

Posted Image

My guess is that Lockout v2.0 will be featured with the more temperate climates of Installation 00, the Ark, but possibly in the same or similar situation - a remote and isolated Flood facility. It could still hang above a blizzard-swept valley on the second iteration of Installation 04, but if I had to put money on it, I'd guess that we're looking at a desert this time. I could be wrong, but Halo 3's wasteland environments (The Ark, Sandtrap, and Epitaph) seem to be an preoccupying theme of the game.

Then comes Cottonball, which I admittedly did not know about until a few nights ago.

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I'll talk about the biggest one first. And it's HUGE. For the purposes of this, we'll codename it Cottonball. I guess a game of Big Team Snipers would be possible, but anything else would be comical without vehicles. This is very much a large scale objective game map - designed first and foremost with CTF and Assault in mind. The map is almost, but not-quite-perfectly symmetrical. Some natural geology prevents each base from being a simple mirror image of the other. I say natural, but the map is set on a Halo, so, natural's not exactly correct.

The map leads to the kind of long, drawn out megabattles that hearken back to the days of the original Halo and the crucial to and fro of an epic LAN party. Its inclusion of a surprising vehicle or two may make it even more interesting than it already sounds.

I've played this a lot (although less, by necessity than the other two) and I have found a couple of very compelling and addictive rhythms. The map is large enough so that even when a team makes off with your flag, there's still a lot of ground you can use to catch up. The other is that each side has some wonderful shortcuts - natural and mechanical - that may not make great flag escape routes, but might let a mobile pursuer cut off escapees.

And I know I am in the minority on this - but I sometimes have trouble knowing precisely where I am headed on a more confusing map - I would call out Epitaph as an example -often I will burst through a door thinking I am headed to say, the Active Camo power up, only to find I am not where I thought I was. For some reason, massive and labyrinthine as it is, this new map never confuses me. I always know which way is up - and that fact has saved my bacon and our flag, several times.
[BWU - 01/18/2008]

What does this tell us about Cottonball? Several things actually:
  • Its name indicates some relativity to cotton. Snow is, of course, the same color as cotton and 'balls,' well, apart from the terminology used by many a Halo fan, snow can be made into a ball during a youthful fisticuff. I'd say the name alone indicates that the map is going to be located in the snow.
  • Needs vehicles when you're playing anything more short range-centric than Big Team Snipers. Sidewinder is one of the only maps in Halo's multiplayer history, for which this can be easily said.
  • This is an objective-centric map. (See Sidewinder for comparison)
  • The map is nearly symmetrical apart from some "natural geometry." (See Sidewinder for comparison Pt. 2)
  • The map is located on a Halo installation, so we would have to assume it is on the snow-covered second iteration of Installation 04. Ironically, Sidewinder was also located on another earlier version of Installation 04 that has since found an end. Halo games have a tendency to grab important parts of their campaign environments and pour them into multiplayer - likely, this map is located somewhere on the only installation in Halo 3, Halo 04. Just like the final campaign level brought back many a memory of the first game, I'd imagine the same theory applies here: the Sidewinder environment exists only on Installation 04's fiction, so when the Ark had to recreate the installation, it had to recreate Sidewinder as well.
  • The map returns the vibe that accompanied Halo: Combat Evolved's LAN parties, crucially and ecstatically indicative of Sidewinder.
  • It includes a surprising vehicle? Not nearly surprising to us, is it? They've hinted at it before, but I believe now we'll be getting it: Snowhog. I wonder if we'll be getting one of these too?
  • The bases have natural and mechanical shortcuts? Oh well, we already know what they are don't we? Sidewinder's cave pass will return, and obviously, the one thing consistent about Halo 3's large multiplayer maps are the mancannon/air vents. I'd suspect that the new version of Sidewinder will have them in spades.
I'd say this is all very compelling evidence, wouldn't you? Some might say: Two remakes in one pack? Not possible.

I would beg to differ. While I'm sure that the design changes to 'Purple Reign,' Sonata's replacement may well be legitimate, I think having been knocked off the top by Call of Duty 4 on Xbox Live might light the fire under the DLC team at Bungie Studios. Remember what was said: ...two of them in particular will cause a Three Mile Island scale pant-fill-disaster in the Halo community. What better time than now for those two? In between announcements on franchise titles and at a point where attention is fading to other online games. The insertion of two fan favorites would be a shot in the arm for sure. I'd expect fervor to build once the maps are announced and pictures are revealed.

Now the real question, of course, is if these maps will feel better than the current stock of Halo 3 maps? We know that both maps, in their heyday, were mesmerizing and powerful, but we've seen bad things happen to good maps before. Small and large changes impacted maps like Hang 'Em High, Coagulation and most recently Zanzibar, which, for many fans, caused them to not capture that 'special something' which lucid nostalgia tells us is missing. I'd say the remakes on these two plots will be a 'final crucible' as it were, of the fans who are walking toward other games right now - a test really aimed at the dexterity and capabilities of the Halo 3's DLC team. I'd say Rat's Nest and Standoff were success stories for me - and I know a lot of guys who agree. Will the second versions of Lockout and Sidewinder be successful as well?

A Halo fan would and should hope so.

#38 Cocopjojo

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:19 PM

I would beg to differ. While I'm sure that the design changes to 'Purple Reign,' Sonata's replacement may well be legitimate, I think having been knocked off the top by Call of Duty 4 on Xbox Live might light the fire under the DLC team at Bungie Studios. Remember what was said: ...two of them in particular will cause a Three Mile Island scale pant-fill-disaster in the Halo community. What better time than now for those two? In between announcements on franchise titles and at a point where attention is fading to other online games. The insertion of two fan favorites would be a shot in the arm for sure. I'd expect fervor to build once the maps are announced and pictures are revealed.

You win. I completely agree. This entire paragraph makes perfect sense.

#39 Va1or

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:11 AM

Great write-up Voc, as usual.

Some of my thoughts...

At long last, we tracked down a build of "Moonlight Sonata" that had received some lighting. Sure, there have been builds with this lighting for a while, but us finally uncovering it was this week's magical moment. For ages and ages and ages it's been a black, barely illuminated, series of interconnected platforms, but now a gentle glow warms this otherwise chilly, isolated structure. [BWU - 02/15/2008]


So except for the "gentle glow" which "warms," this structure seems like a very literal description of Lockout - perhaps this time with a bit sunnier perspective. Further confirmation in the same article indicates that what lies below the structure is "far different from a lush jungle." Not surprising to fans of Lockout, as the multi-tiered structure of platforms was a Flood laboratory set into the undercarriage of the vast frigid mountain ranges on Installation 05, Delta Halo.


I think that when he mentions a "gentle glow" that "warms" the structure he isn't implying it is actually a warm or sunny place. In fact, he says it is "otherwise chilly." I think by "warms" he means that the light cast from a light source warms the color palette and illuminates what was once "black [and] barely illuminated." Despite this "warming" of the dark palette it is still a "chilly" place. My guess is, a giant beautiful moon shining on Lockout 2, in the frozen wastes gives rise to the codename "Moonlight Sonata."

As far as Cottonball/Sidewinder are concerned:

Its inclusion of a surprising vehicle or two may make it even more interesting than it already sounds.


It includes a surprising vehicle? Not nearly surprising to us, is it? They've hinted at it before, but I believe now we'll be getting it: Snowhog. I wonder if we'll be getting one of these too?


That would be pretty awesome, but I doubt it. It doesn't seem to be Bungie's style to create new weapons or vehicles post-release and even if they did I doubt they would be creating a surprising vehicle "or two." And again, if so, I think Frankie would by hyping one or two new vehicles over the moon, not giving it a short reference, saying they are "surprising." He'd make sure to tell you that you will love them more than your mother and will cry with joy when you play with them, etc.

Instead I think it's much more likely that the vehicle is surprising because players don't see it very much in multiplayer online. My guess is we will see the Prowler, Hornet or Scorpion. An already established vehicle that hasn't seen multiplayer action. If it is Sidewinder 2, a Scorpion is almost a given.

Edited by Va1or, 24 February 2008 - 05:18 AM.


#40 vociferous

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 06:11 AM

Well, I should say that I think the vehicle change I had in mind would be largely visual, like perhaps a new skin and sound. I don't know if we'll get a pure recreation of the Snowhog, with hatch doors and all. I don't have the data with me, but if I recall, there have been some pretty meaty hints in that category. Could be wrong, but that's what I'm going with. That being said, I would like to see the Prowler used more often and this would be a good chance to use it given the ice-covered landscape.



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