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#281 Jironimo

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:31 AM

You're right on about games after launch. 

 

What do you mean by you don't "own" that game?



#282 Syracuse022

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:11 AM

Gah, I miss my hunter and his treasure trove of green weapons (dat Gozen-C sniper) already. Total time played (across 3 characters): 17h 45m  :blink: Whoops.



#283 JCTucker

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:37 AM

You're right on about games after launch. 

 

What do you mean by you don't "own" that game?

 

It's basically a licensing situation.



#284 Drew

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:26 PM

Some thoughts, composed on my phone so maybe not the most eloquent. Things that are missing or could be improved upon, in my opinion.

- We need an on-screen consumable timer (Ether Seeds, etc.) Checking your inventory constantly to see if the effect is still running kinda sux.

- Vault access from orbit. It's a huge pain in the ass swapping weapons between characters, especially with how excruciatingly long load times are.

- Fucking load times, dude. If it's this bad on launch I'll be looking into an SSD for my PS4. It doesn't help that you're forced into orbit after every activity. Should have a "Return to Tower" option after you complete a mission/activity (Strikes included).

- I'm really worried about balance issues in multiplayer, especially at endgame. Active camo on snipers, Hunters getting active camo whenever they crouch? I don't like the sound of that at all. Tracking rounds, especially on rockets and LMGs, are going to be a huge pain in the ass.

- Enemy variety is pretty mediocre currently. I touched on this in my last post. Glimpses of different mobs in various trailers gives me some hope, though.

- I really hope that our ships can be used for something more than just an e-peen loading screen decoration. Seems like a huge waste opportunity. Let us walk around inside, let us shoot things with them. Seriously, what are all those guns there for, otherwise?

- I really hope there are more mounts than just the Sparrow. The fact that so far, the only difference between the different types of Sparrow is color pallet and a slight speed/maneuverability boost, is mildly worrying.

- Huge network problems with MP, even at the beginning of the beta. Sometimes a long delay on other players dying, connecting shots and no damage registering, and regular disconnects are very frustrating.

- A fireteam should NEVER be separated. Getting split up when you go into MP fucking sucks, and needs to be fixed ASAP.

- Ability to run Strikes with less than three players/solo, without being forced into matchmaking. I'd like to be able to challenge myself and run stuff solo if so I choose.

- Some sort of firing range/training dummies. The stats are confusing and vague as is, it would be nice to have a way to see concrete numbers immediately after changing around the upgrades on a weapon. Fucking around with them in explore mode is unintuitive and inconsistent.

- Ability to rotate/pan/zoom weapon and armor previews. Same to your character in the character creation mode.

- Perhaps a marker on locations where you've already found a ghost? Maybe a mini gravestone or something? I can already tell that keeping track of what you have found and what you haven't is going to be a pain.

I will post more as I think of them.

#285 Drew

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:54 PM

Oh yeah, why no love for melee?! There should definitely be a melee class, or at least some melee main-hands. Add that and I have no need for PSO any longer.

#286 KrAzY WiSh

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:04 AM

A quicker way to access inventory items like Ether Seeds etc. And a map you can call up like in Fallout 3. That would be helpful when exploring the maze like caverns etc.

If both of these things were in the beta then I completely missed them. :(
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#287 Jironimo

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:10 AM

- I'm really worried about balance issues in multiplayer, especially at endgame. Active camo on snipers, Hunters getting active camo whenever they crouch? I don't like the sound of that at all. Tracking rounds, especially on rockets and LMGs, are going to be a huge pain in the ass.

 

I don't understand how people aren't just coming out and saying it, the multiplayer in this game is terrible. Yes the core mechanics feel pretty good as Bungie generally nails this, but the maps funnel everyone through small areas and/or closed off sections only so this can happen:

 

jvulai.gif

 

zpwwro.gif

 

Additionally you load-out with a shotgun or sniper rifle in addition to a heavy weapon, as if a super armor ability wasn't enough. I've already decided that I will spend almost no time in the multiplayer for these reasons.



#288 Nightshade

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:23 AM

I'm really not a big fan of the fact that, as you showcased, two of the three classes have a massive-instant kill AOE attack. And the game forces you to play the objective by standing in a radius much smaller than the AOE. It's essentially a promise you'll kill anywhere from one person to a whole team if you ever so slightly sneak up on an objective being captured with a super charge.

I don't think the multiplayer is bad, per se. But I don't think it's balanced at all. And I don't think this is going to be the kind of multiplayer experience people stick with. The only reason we like it, is because we're all fairly proficient at shooting dudes; so even in a fair game we've got a decent chance of winning. So I'm always hesitant to rate a multiplayer experience based on our feelings when playing as a group, considering you're likely to think almost anything is a grand old time when you're getting what you want. Which in this case, is a victory.

As Drew stated too, the balance is only going to become more diluted. Soon we will see active camo make a return, Titans can use shield bubbles, weapons will get more ridiculous, etc. The game might feel "balanced" with a limited number of weapons and abilities, but it's only going to get worse. It's likely I will only be playing PvP for gear and exclusively with our group and never on my own. Something I wouldn't have mandated with something like Halo.

And fuck whoever thought the brute chopper on steroids was a good idea. Especially considering they effectively neutered any way to kill the thing short of a super.



#289 JCTucker

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:26 PM

I played maybe 5 games of competitive multiplayer.  I will only play this mode with our group.  I have zero interest in engaging in it with randos.

 

If I want to play competitively, I'll switch to M Cheif Cumpilation.  But when I'm going solo or with only a handful of people who don't really care about shooting AI, then I'll be talking to Tyrion.



#290 phreak

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

Oh, I didn't even realize that there were going to be so many abilities added to the mix. Shit is going to get crazy, and probably not in a good way.

 

Ivan is right that mechanically it is like Halo, but the tweaks change things drastically. When you turn the gameplay into what is essentially territories (never a big part of Halo but a big part of BF) and give everyone super weapons (I hate the idea of people spawning with snipers; it was bad enough when SharpeWolfe, Cuse, or Gamble picked one up, I don't need them starting with them), it is a very different game.


Edited by phreak, 29 July 2014 - 02:18 PM.


#291 Blaze

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

I don't understand how people aren't just coming out and saying it, the multiplayer in this game is terrible.


I said as much in this thread after playing several matches. Since then, I've put in quite a bit more time with Drewcible just so that my loathing for it would be more informed. I can confirm that the PvP is garbagey dumpster baby bullshit. I think it was doomed to mediocrity for two reasons:


1. Sage Merrill
2. The characters/loadouts have to be persistent across PvE and PvP


The second one is kind of the bigger issue. The multiplayer balance gets compromised when weapons and abilities designed for PvE have to be shoehorned into PvP. I can't even imagine how random level 20 PvP is going to feel when people's weapons, abilities, and supers have a hundred different active and passive effects. You won't be able to prepare for any battle with another player because there's no way to predict what that other player has, so it will just boil down to who uses their overpowered thing first. I don't know how people keep saying the PvP or the game in general is anything like Halo. You can draw parallels between armor abilities and supers, as well as bloom and... bloom, but that one's more of a symptom of the modern shooter than a Halo mechanic. It is nothing like classic Halo, nor does it seem to build upon or learn from any of Halo's strengths.

They should have made PvP something other than your typical player character versus player character thing, since the game is primarily and inherently balanced for PvE. Therefore, maybe it should have been more of a PvE hybrid thing where a team of guardians plays against a team of aliens. Three guardians with all of their OP equipment versus nine Fallen or Hive or Cabal or whatever. Alien team plays in third person and can select from preset classes (Fallen Captain, Stealth Vandal, Hive Wizard, Hive Knight, etc.). Anything would have been more interesting and more balanced than what Destiny's PvP is.

#292 phreak

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:34 PM

The game does *feel* like Halo. The relative time to kill, weapons, etc. It feels more like H3 or Reach than 1 or 2, but that's what people mean when they say it is like Halo.

 

Yes, it is superficial to say that, but a lot of people (not on this forum) want a game with Halo frosting.


Edited by phreak, 29 July 2014 - 02:36 PM.


#293 Drew

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:28 PM

I don't think the MP is anything like Halo at all, but for what it's worth, I had way more fun with it over the 100-odd matches that I played than I EVER had with Halo 4 MP.

The base gunplay is really awesome, I think. Scout Rifles are fucking great, and super satisfying to use. Shotguns are godlike, and other than the fact that you spawn with ammo for them, I think they're some of the best shotguns I've ever used in a multiplayer shooter.

The supers I became ambivalent toward the more MP I played. It was frustrating to get killed by them, initially, but because they are partially on a timer, you can learn the cadence for when they'll be up during a match, and plan accordingly. I like to jet pack out when I know there are supers up and someone is sprinting around a corner, and it helps me avoid them frequently (unless it's a golden gun). I still think they have no place in multiplayer, especially the other ones like the Warlock's resurrection/heal and the Titan's bubble.

I feel like the final MP will be very dependent on having a coordinated team working together to mix supers effectively, or, it could just turn into a giant cluster fuck. Who knows at this point, but I'm apprehensive regardless.

Edited by Drew, 29 July 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#294 Drew

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:36 PM

The fact that they nerfed the Interceptor (pretty heavily, from the sound of it) is a good sign. I hope they'll continue listening to feedback after launch, especially after we get a bunch of geared-out 20s going at it. Hopefully there are separate PvP and PvE gear paths, so we aren't forced into PvP in order to acquire the best gear. I'll be pretty upset if that's the case - it's the primary reason I stopped playing TERA.

#295 Blaze

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:38 PM

The game does *feel* like Halo. The relative time to kill, weapons, etc. It feels more like H3 or Reach than 1 or 2, but that's what people mean when they say it is like Halo.
 
Yes, it is superficial to say that, but a lot of people (not on this forum) want a game with Halo frosting.


Explain how it feels like Halo. Average time to kill is way faster than classic Halo. Gunplay is fundamentally different due to ADS and bloom. There is no shield/health dynamic with weapons that are more effective against each. Map control, map movement, map design in general, power weapon/powerup control, etc. are all nonexistent. If we're comparing the minutia of FPS games, then Destiny is closer on the spectrum to "modern shooters" like Call of Duty or Borderlands. If Destiny didn't have Bungie's name attached to it, no one would be saying it plays or feels or even looks like Halo. This is the exact same phenomenon as people saying this "looks like Halo". Here's the uncropped version. It looks like Halo because it says 343i in the bottom corner, not because it inherently looks like Halo. People are letting their subconscious thoughts bleed into their objective opinions.

Saying Destiny plays like Halo is doing Halo a disservice. Halo does way more interesting and dynamic things in terms of combat and gameplay. I wish Destiny played more like Halo. People want a game with a Halo frosting? They want a game that plays and tastes completely different, but looks like Halo? That's what that analogy means. Why would anyone want that? Destiny does actually look and taste different, but the taste is bland and uninteresting.

#296 Drew

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:44 PM

There is a "Bungie aesthetic" attached to the game as a whole, and that might be what's confusing some. It definitely plays nothing like Halo, that much is certain. Even Halo 4 plays more like Halo than Destiny, and that's saying something.

#297 phreak

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:23 PM

Explain how it feels like Halo. Average time to kill is way faster than classic Halo. Gunplay is fundamentally different due to ADS and bloom. There is no shield/health dynamic with weapons that are more effective against each. Map control, map movement, map design in general, power weapon/powerup control, etc. are all nonexistent. If we're comparing the minutia of FPS games, then Destiny is closer on the spectrum to "modern shooters" like Call of Duty or Borderlands. If Destiny didn't have Bungie's name attached to it, no one would be saying it plays or feels or even looks like Halo. This is the exact same phenomenon as people saying this "looks like Halo". Here's the uncropped version. It looks like Halo because it says 343i in the bottom corner, not because it inherently looks like Halo. People are letting their subconscious thoughts bleed into their objective opinions.

Saying Destiny plays like Halo is doing Halo a disservice. Halo does way more interesting and dynamic things in terms of combat and gameplay. I wish Destiny played more like Halo. People want a game with a Halo frosting? They want a game that plays and tastes completely different, but looks like Halo? That's what that analogy means. Why would anyone want that? Destiny does actually look and taste different, but the taste is bland and uninteresting.

You make good points.

 

There are parts of the game that scream Halo to me. The pikes might as well be ghosts. The default grenade for the warlock is just like whatever pickup you could get that would stop vehicles and damage people in H3. Sniping feels like Halo. When people are airborne and I'm plugging away at them with a scout rifle it feels very close to H2 and a carbine.

 

I know the game fundamentally plays different, but it still feels like Halo to me (maybe not as a whole, but in parts), and I imagine to most casuals (am I a casual? maybe). Most people haven't refined the psychoanalysis of Halo like this forum has (that's not supposed to come off as critical, it is just this forum is exceedingly knowledgeable about Halo details).


Edited by phreak, 29 July 2014 - 04:25 PM.


#298 Drew

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:39 PM

For what it's worth, things that need to be addressed as far as MP is concerned:

- Spawning with special ammo at the start of a match is a big no-no. Nothing like running out of A on Venus at the start of a match and getting sniped in the face.

- Heavy ammo spawns too often.

- Supers should be attributed to time alone, if they insist on keeping them in the Crucible. Charging your super faster for killing people is dangerously close to kill streaks/ordnance.

- Tracking needs to be disabled on projectiles in PvP. It's making me rage already. Good thing the game doesn't have a killcam, because shit's about to get infuriating.

- Hit detection is good, kill/damage delay is NOT. Fix that shit.

- Hand Cannons and Pulse Rifles need a serious buff, if not a complete rework. As it stands, they are straight garbage in both PvP and PvE.

- Remove First Light from the game entirely.

- Mars map needs the spawns balanced or B needs to move somewhere else. As it stands, the strategy for the map is hold C spawn -> win.

- Already mentioned, but why are parties getting split? Huuuuuge problem. Warrants repeating.

Also, goddamnit, how did we end up talking about multiplayer? PvE is what it's all about.

Edited by Drew, 29 July 2014 - 06:40 PM.


#299 Jironimo

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:41 AM

- Remove First Light from the game entirely.

 

I think you're spot on with everything you listed above except about removing First Light. If they made those changes you listed, the game would be playable and maybe even fun.

 

As far as the maps are concerned I think First Light is the best one in the game. Not only is the aesthetic the best, but I like that it's more open and even the interiors have plenty of room. The maps in general for the game are horrible. They generally consist of long corridors so you can shoot each other, high perched areas since everyone can super jump, and then it consistently funnels people into rooms with low ceilings and small doors so people can use their supers on you. 

iDhMwYqoQRTy7.gif



#300 Drew

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:41 AM

I have tons of recorded MP footage (sadly not the footage I wanted, as it turns out that the video function records the following 15 minutes, and not the previous) that I'm going to start sorting through tonight. Will post some at some point.

P.S.: First Light is mainly garbage because of the vehicles, which sound like they're mostly fixed in the final game. We'll see.

Edited by Drew, 30 July 2014 - 09:42 AM.



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